CellE2057 said
So I'm alone on the cringe of it apparently. I don't get the "fuck yeah, America!" shit and never really did.

I live in a country where I'm allowed to criticize ANY religion or politician openly and still keep breathing, which a lot of countries can't do so America is great for that. I can eat egg rolls with my bacon pizza, also great but I don't get having pride in it like you did something. If you're in the military I can see it but that's about it. It just comes off as "my dad is richer than your dad" to me. Good job....you were born into privileges. So...fuck yeah?! 

Also don't get the rebel flag bashing (despite how much I love that song, I disagree with the message) that seems to happen in Juggalo ranks so often. Like, you do know that the civil war wasn't entirely about slavery, right? I'm not saying it wasn't a factor, it definitely was but to act like the whole war was because every state in the south wanted to own slaves is some ignorant shit. That flag didn't represent slavery in the same way that the American flag doesn't represent small pox. Sure, that's part of it's history but you're doing it a disservice to keep thinking that that's all it represents. The Rebel flag, as the name would imply, stood for rebellion against, what they considered to be, an overbearing government. 

Better get that out of your system while you still can.  I'm surprised we still have anything from the bill of rights left besides 90% blacked out shit and at the end of it: "Tl;dr -- You ain't got any goddamn rights! Now pay your fucking taxes and go work at those jobs."

And you're kinda right; the Civil War was 50/50 slavery and the Union going "WE CAN'T LET THEM BE FREE, THIS IS AMERICA NOT FUNLAND!"

scruffy said

rebel flag mightve meant fun, or pride, or fuckever to somebody once upon a time.  i wasnt there, its possible.  

but today, its used by shitloads of racist asswipes who push racist agendas.  doesnt matter if you wished it wasnt, it is.  

It definitely gets used to push racist agendas but my response is kind of the same argument I was making before about the American flag. It's used to push a lot of questionable overseas agendas but that doesn't change what it, at the very least, theoretically stands for. Doesn't matter what I mean when I say "literally", what matters is the definition. The problem is that there's really no specific list of what the rebel flag meant/means. I do know that it isn't just slavery though. That's really my only point here: shit's not black and white (wasn't on purpose but I'm leavin it) like a lot of Juggalos make it out to be. 

frankly, if you value a flag, any flag, over any people, i consider it an extremely bad sign.  

If I may, there it is.

MetalHorrorGuitarWhat said

-- I'm surprised we still have anything from the bill of rights left besides 90% blacked out shit --

-Said every single generation since the Bill of Rights became law. 

For real though, "All animals are equal, but some animal are more equal than others." has always given me goosebumps so I get having that view. It's a really attractive view to have. I just don't see it being anything other than that. An attractive view without any real substance.

I'm always down to be proven wrong though, so by all means go for it, man. Just maybe give the article/amendments that we don't have now and I'll go to the page and read the ones that you say we don't have. 

http://www.archives.gov/exhibi.....cript.html

I do understand that you are legally obligated to shoot at least 1 black man during your first 6 months of being a cop.

The Notorious, L.T.B. said

King Lucem Ferre said
I do understand that you are legally obligated to shoot at least 1 black man during your first 6 months of being a cop.

I thought everyone knew that.

Not black people. You'd thing they'd see it coming by now.

As Scruffy pointed out, the Civil War wasn't "completely" about slavery... Just like all the shit going on in the middle east isn't "technically" just one big never ending religious war.

And people need to stop comparing the confederate flag to the Nazi flag. While there *are parallels they aren't really comparable.

But the one thing they do have in common are dummies that wanna jump up and try to make the point about what these flags are NOT rather than coming to terms with what they ARE.

The swastika is a very old and ancient symbol used in MANY cultures in the world's history... So doesn't it just suck for everyone that a psychotic, genocidal regime chose to use it as their banner in their attempt to destroy the world?! Shucks!

Same goes for the confederate flag. It may have MEANT something else at some OTHER time, but when it got used by people wanting to keep their slaves SOOO badly that they would tear a young country apart with murder and fear as their weapons....

...the same result:

YOU LOSE THEM!!! Just like the swastika will NEVER AGAIN be remembered for its ancient mysticism, the confederate flag will NEVER be seen as some reminder of a historical people who were fighting their government in the pursuit of anyone's "rights".

They ARE and always WILL BE symbols of hate. The confederate flag is just soft racism. A loophole in the hate speech clause under the guise of "tradition" and "history"

Yeah, I get it. No one wants to be told that their family were on the wrong side of one of history's plagues but... DEAL WITH IT! Ben Affleck didn't want it to be known his family owned slaves. But I'm sure he feels differently about that flag, pfft.

Flag defenders are also the people (by my observation) give NO fucks about Native Americans and have almost NO conception of what "the South" did to THEM as well. Similar to being reminded that the Nazis went after more than just Jewish people.

Like the song sez: "....out here pretendin' that you ain't offendin". You KNOW what the flag represents to people and walk around like it doesn't or never did mean what EVERYONE knows it does.

Meh. ICP said it pretty well. If anyone still wants to pretend like they don't "get it"... yer the problem.

I've always given ICP props for doing songs on this kind of thing. Honestly, I can't think of any other music group that's gone so far out of their way to call out racist, rednecks and bigots than ICP.

I disagree on the part of the swaztika. Mainly because those religions still do use their symbols. Plus, the swaztika is the only one that crosses like an X and I think it may be the only one that spins in that direction. So the symbols that the swaztika is made in the image of are not representations of Nazism.

No other artist does it because it should be common knowledge that racism is bad.

The Manji is still used.

Then again I did already point out the differences between a Manji and a Swaztika.

Usually if somebody has a swaztika they probably have the SS some where too and the iron cross. There are many ways to tell the difference between a racist with a swaztika and a Buddhist with a Manji.

Cheshyr said

Same goes for the confederate flag. It may have MEANT something else at some OTHER time, but when it got used by people wanting to keep their slaves SOOO badly that they would tear a young country apart with murder and fear as their weapons....

I removed everything you said previously to this because I can't disagree with it. This^ is a very simplistic idea of what the civil war was. If you really think that the bloodiest war (standing record) in American history was 1.) because some people wanted slaves 2.) started by the south, I highly recommend going back and reading a little further on the civil war. Specifically how it started. That's not to say that the south was innocent but to word it the way you have implies that the south was a vicious monster attacking the weak and feeble north who just wanted everyone to get along. That's not the case and it doesn't take much research to know it. 

YOU LOSE THEM!!! Just like the swastika will NEVER AGAIN be remembered for its ancient mysticism, the confederate flag will NEVER be seen as some reminder of a historical people who were fighting their government in the pursuit of anyone's "rights".

This is a valid argument until you elaborate on it with;   

They ARE and always WILL BE symbols of hate. The confederate flag is just soft racism. A loophole in the hate speech clause under the guise of "tradition" and "history"

You cannot tell the future so neither of us know if it always will be. It's not soft racism. It can definitely be used as such but that doesn't mean it is. Just because the tradition is bad, doesn't mean it isn't tradition. I don't agree with the argument that it's just tradition though so whatever. It's a stupid, meaningless phrase that some people use in hopes that the other side will ease off but that doesn't mean your counter argument is any better.

Flag defenders are also the people (by my observation) give NO fucks about Native Americans and have almost NO conception of what "the South" did to THEM as well. Similar to being reminded that the Nazis went after more than just Jewish people.

Allow me to be the exception for you. I defend the rebel flag (I don't always want to but it seems like a lot of people are just okay pretending that it's the most villainous thing that has ever existed ever so...someone has to do it I guess) and I assure that I do indeed give multiple fucks about Native Americans. Just image search "native americans in pop culture" and you can see how far we still have to go socially. It's fucking disgusting that we STILL in 2015 are okay with racist ass stereotypes of native americans being broadcast all over everything and when someone speaks up the best that's offered is "we gave them some land and a casino". Awesome. How very kind of you. Also, fuck anyone that tries to defend genocide (what ALL of America, not just the South but the North as well, did to native americans) and/or slavery. 

Meh. ICP said it pretty well. If anyone still wants to pretend like they don't "get it"... yer the problem.

I think anyone that wants to pretend the world is black and white and the bad guys can be measured by a piece of cloth is the problem so we'll just have to agree to disagree there.