Cheshyr said
There are a couple other points in this that seem to be getting overlooked. Well, not overlooked but a bit washed over.

Is anybody hooked up on the fact that Twiztid has been outted as having NOT WANTED to have played the last several Gatherings and it took MASTERS and jacked up fees before they would? Alright, apparently they did WotH 17 for cost (which ICP seems quite thankful for) but even that AMAZING ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME PERFORMANCE was the result of settling on another deal… ugh…

Seems shitty. Not the masters thing but the price thing. Don’t remember the deal on that, thought it was done for free or something. Because J mentioned it being a reason why they made money that year.

When Twiztid says, “We got love for Juggalos”, they mean it in the same way Spinal Tap says, “We love you, Cleveland!”.

Or so J wants you to believe whether it’s true or not.

I totally agree with VJ’s assessment that people don’t want to see them all on-stage pretending to be cool with each other after all this YW signing bullshit… which is STRAIGHT UP BULLSHIT and Twiztid is WRONG for that!

You can argue about the merits or faults of Twiztid’s initial response to not marching all you want… THAT is potentially healthy debate… but any Juggalo acting conflicted about them signing YW (knowing everything we know about their mutual pasts), or acting like ICP “deserved” to be cut like that, needs a fuckin’ check!

Twiztid claims they got the green light for that. So either they are lying which is double shady, or Violent J lied. There are different variables to this rather than the clear black and white picture you paint like what their personal intent was or different situational things. I personally think it was a spiteful move which is a shame an Twiztid thing, but at the same time I like Otis’s art so good on them for not letting him fall into oblivion.

After watching that whole FLH interview and KNOWING that “that cord is fuckin’ cut”, Twiztid needs to quit playin’ like they can still bank on MYSTERY BEEF Ooooooohhh… It’s fuckin’ out there! That YW shit pretty much demands that Paul and Jamie drop whatever it is they think they’re holding onto about what went down at Psychopathic and their split from them. Because that was some seriously hateful shit to do to their “friends and family”. I totally agree with Violent J that they KNEW what that would do and they KNEW how it would make them feel and there is no MYSTERY BEEF about it, that’s some LIFE shit.

I think J cutting Twiztid or Dark Lotus over Otis like that is just as petty. And I think that Twiztid tried to hide their problems for the same reasons Violent J did.

So Twiztid needs to quit playin’ with talking shit about merch contracts and creative differences, say what “needs” to be said and quit acting like they’re being all fuckin’ magnanimous by not “revealing the true story of ICP”… Dat dog won’t hunt no more.

Not really. This is all completely personal stuff. Plus they claimed they signed a non-disclosure agreement. There is no reason for them to release any tell all story unless they want to play the politics. Which is what it looks like to me. A game of politics.

Twiztid wants to be regarded as a new band. They have respect for their fans but they want new ones that don’t force them to be attached at the hip of Psychopathic… which is the “curse” they will never be able to shake. And they’re tryin’ reeeeeaaall hard to.

I don’t think they want to be regarded as new, but yes they want to be known as not ICP. Which is understandable. At the same time they have invoked ICP’s name and gave them praise for giving them the opportunities and the knowledge they needed to make it on their own. According to them they wanted to reach outside of the culture to pull more people into the culture.

I like a bunch of MNE stuff they’ve put out. I think Twiztid’s new video is pretty dope! Amazing body paint stuff. But this real shit they did is just outside of my ability to find a reason why anyone would defend it. They need to come up with one before I’m ready to say Fuck MNE… and that POS “video response” they put out did not sway me in the least.

I think that’s dumb. Everything that is going on is personal between them and Psy. The only thing that directly involves you is whether or not they are creating great art, which you think they are. You probably won’t stop eating at Burger King if they hired the Hamburgler to spite Ronald. Which is a funny analogy you have to admit. It’s like you support an artist for living up to an unobtainable personal moral standard that most people don’t, or can’t, live up to rather than supporting an artist for making great art. And why that bothers me, for people that will probably ask (Scruffy) is because I’m a shitty person that makes art. And, let’s say Twiztid does eventually release a tell all piece of media that proves ICP has been super fucking shady for years. You going to completely turn your back on Psychopathic because of that? For the record, not that it has anything to do with anything or anybody really cares, but it’s just a strange thing about me, despite the fact that I prefer Twiztid much much more than ICP I show more support towards Psy than MNE where as every time Psy has a new artist I check them out and I don’t do that with MNE.

And you know who I feel bad for after all this…? Blaze.  

Why?

scruffy said

King Lucem Ferre said    
Seems shitty. Not the masters thing but  

-errr!  hard brakes.  

the masters thing was shitty.  quite so.  in the business, there is probably no greater way to demonstrate how highly you regard a mufucka than to give em a master.  

that is not hyperbole.  

  

you never, ever, for any reason, ever, just give away a master.  thats page one shit, right there.  

  

personally, i cant believe that icp caved, and gave em more than one.  that is fuckin unreal generosity.  might be unprecedented;  definitely aint ever gonna happen to any other contemporary artist.  

twiztid should be sendin them a thank you card every half hour for that.  no bullshit.    

I don’t get it. So handing over the masters means they are giving Twiztid the rights to their catalog and that’s it. Or are they handing over the rights solely to Twiztid, what am I missing from this?

Cause from my perspective it seems kind of fucked that they’d have to beg for the masters.

Dude, I’m done with you acting like you’re the measure of common sense and decency in all this. As has been pointed out by others, you don’t fancy yourself a Juggalo, you’re not interested in the Dark Carnival and don’t care about the “family” aspect of Psychopathic. You are an end user. You buy the music. From there on out, yer just talkin’ out yer ass about shit you don’t feel anyway… as evidenced by this little ditty…

King Lucem Ferre said

And I still think it’s stupid to put your perspective of who fucked who over as a deciding factor on what art to support over what art is good.

I see what’cha did there, tricky bugga. Tryin’ to redirect the conversation to something a little more tangible to your level of involvement, heh?

I’m not gonna indulge you in this more than just to say that artistic MOTIVATION is a HUGE part of art APPRECIATION. I’m sure there’s a haiku about it somewhere…

Getting back to the thread at hand…

There are definitely aspects of this that are TOTALLY not “our business”.

Anything to do with Samantha and Otis or any further discussion about their dating/relationship/pregnancy as it relates to the BRUCE FAMILY is most assuredly NONE of our business. The Psychopathic Family, however, requires a different approach to explanation expectations… Any future conversations between ’em, any interactions between these individuals is NOT for us to speculate on.

Shit like how much MORE Twiztid needed to be paid off to do Gatherings (as in numbers), is literally NONE of our business.

King Lucem Ferre said

And it’s their personal relationship and their personal lives that you don’t need to hear about just so you can put them on trial.

Ah, but that’s at the heart of the thing; isn’t it, my litigious little friend?

What we’ve got here is… a PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE.

ICP seems to have flatly laid out everything they felt they needed to say in order to deal with all of the mounting questions that arose from YOUNG WICKED NOT TWIZTID REJECTING THE MARCH!!!

Because questions beget questions until they get answered. ICP seems to be the ones put on blast to have to answer those questions (to the apparent delight of MNE). And now that ICP has let their feelings be known about just how much they felt betrayed by that, that should inform all of US that whatever the fuck Twiztid hates so much about ICP, sure as fuck MUST have more than contracts and merchandise as to why they have taken up arms against them for so many years only to come to THIS! It’s on Twiztid to fill in the blanks because ICP has cut that fuckin’ cord.

ICP went so far as to tell us about a fucking pregnancy, in order to help us understand what is going on and Twiztid can’t be bothered to make a fucking halfway decent response TO US that is nothing more than a defense about why they didn’t want to march COMPLETELY IGNORING the REAL piece of shit that stunk up the room..! “Publicity for another band”. Yeah, it could have been for YOURS TOO, numb nuts!

Please explain to me how Psychopathic wasn’t going to have to spell out to the rest of us JUST HOW shitty a thing it was for MNE to sign Otis WITHOUT getting into your “personal shit”?

“Dark Lotus and the entire MNE roster won’t be playing Juggalo Weekend?! WHY?!”

“Uuhhhhh… none of your business” “Oh okay, I’ll tell you it’s because MNE signed Young Wicked”.

“What does that have to do with Dark Lotus?”

“Uuhhhhh…”

Well, wait… you can’t. Cuz you’re not someone to whom The Lotus or the make-up of the Dark Carnival was/is a big deal to (and every other example of what is now lost to Juggalos from all this). An’ I’m not saying that *I* am someone that has been impacted on so many levels but there ARE those that… are. I’m just walkin’ YOU through that garden cuz you keep saying you’re “not getting it”.

And not for nuthin’, but knowing that Psychopathic turned over MASTERS to Twiztid NOT OUT OF FRIENDSHIP but out of some kinda extortion to continue playing Gatherings….?!? That’s ALSO some “none of our business” type shit that certainly flavors my thoughts on Twiztid going forward.

Motivations matter to The Family.

Basic.

ICP legally own those masters, if they had to bribe twiztid with them then that’s between those 4 and should’ve never been made public to begin with

So lucems opinion doesnt count because he doesnt call himself a juggalo? Fuck that. Have you been here the past 5 years? He is a pillar of the forum, whether yall like it or not. 

You have clearly made your mind up like so many others and aint a damn thing twiztid or otis can say to change that.

Slumerican502 said
So lucems opinion doesnt count because he doesnt call himself a juggalo?

Didn’t say that at all. There’s a difference between not being able to formulate an opinion on a thing and saying their opinion doesn’t count. Like someone that’s never been in the military talking to a marine about war… there’s all kinds of opinions and thoughts that can be had but not one where it’d be “the same” as the marine. Perhaps IF Lucem wanted to be, …i dunno what you wanna call it… uh, “more down”(??), than perhaps he would be able to answer a lot of his own questions with the subject line of “who cares?” or “why?”.

Fuck that. Have you been here the past 5 years?

[pulls out calculator] Hmm… Yep.

Derp. Did you lose track of who you were typing at?

He is a pillar of the forum, whether yall like it or not. 

“Let’s check with the audience….. And YES! … We have a Love Connection!” lulz

Dude, Lucem is alright with me. Doesn’t grant him special powers of not being disagreed with.

(pfft… as if I wouldn’t know one of the “pillars” of the forum, HA!)

trippin’.

You have clearly made your mind up like so many others and aint a damn thing twiztid or otis can say to change that.  

As to the ENTIRE POINT being that what Twiztid did by signing Young Wicked is some hurtful, hateful shit; yes, my mind if FULLY made up!

As to how that will affect my future interactions with one of my favorite bands (along with the rest they are dragging around with them)…? THAT all depends on what Jaime and Paul choose to do about it.

If there’s any “sides” to be taken it’s clearly between those that think it’s bullshit and those that don’t care. If ya do, yer in THIS slot and if you don’t, yer in THAT one…

But lest we forget… Psychopathic and MNE both got to where they both are in time because of the people who DID care and not by those that didn’t. Juggalos are known to care about this shit when the whole rest of the world is telling them they shouldn’t.

Fingertrap.

Yeah, I know that most labels don’t give away the masters. Most labels are shady as fuck.

What I’m not understanding is what they lose from doing that. Like, can they not make money off of those records anymore? I guess they can’t push out a remastered version of those albums or even remix them or something, but why is it a big deal to give Twiztid those rights? Because other labels won’t?

See, that’s the thing, they are supposed to be homies. Or were. So why would they need to make a deal just to get them? Maybe I’m just seeing it from an artists perspective but I can’t fathom leaving a label and not owning my masters.

Cheshyr, you’re just rambling on about how “they had to tell us why no more Lotus” but you never really stopped to think why they have to. To feed your sense of curiosity? To play the shitty political game so judgmental assholes no who to put on trial? Bullshit. They could have kicked Twiztid off and easily went a long with it. Never announcing no more Lotus would save a lot of it. Really, the only reason to spill guts on this is for politics which is fucking unless because you all have your minds made up already. Like, if they just kicked Twiztid off of Juggalo Day you guys would have said shit like “Now look, those shady fuckers aren’t even playing juggalo day, they totally turned their backs on us!”

Oh, and quit playing this “Oh he thinks he’s better because he’s not a juggalo” retard shit. Because there are plenty of juggalos that are sensible about this, that aren’t picking a side or demanding explanations. Plenty that just want it all to stop. Just your way of poisoning the well so you can feel better about the fact that I think you turning your back and great artists over relationship issues that aren’t your business is stupid. 

Does this change your opinion at all? Or is it all complete bullshit coming from Otis? Does it change anything? It’s exactly what’s being demanded. Oh, is it not official enough? Will you think about turning your back on ICP? Probably not. It’s just complete shit.

And I’m not saying “who cares” I care enough to discuss it. I also care enough to pay attention to it. What I’m saying is why do you feel entitled to know shit that isn’t your business? And why is that your deciding factor on which art to support?

Noah Fence said
 The masters and the rights to them mean twiztid can make limited edition rereleases, vinyl pressings, etc. 

I think icp should give them all up even though they ain’t gotta. I would hand them over and then delete them from my contacts  twiztid wanna sever ties, then cut them clean. If twiztid wanna be down, let them come and ask.   

I know that, what I don’t know is does that mean ICP can’t anymore?