King Lucem Ferre said

Something that I think anybody who enjoys art needs to consider is making sure you support art that you actually like rather than supporting artists out of a loyalty or a novelty.

/

A better question is; Do you give any other artists this many chances? The answer to that should reveal a lot about the way you consume music.

I dont really know what the big deal is. Of course I will not give other (to me unknown) artists this many chances. To say it the other way round: Of course I give my favourite artists more chances than any unknown artists out there, because they’ve already proven that they are capable of making music I really like. They earned credit, thats the way it goes. If those favourite artists make new music, that disappoints me, then it disappoints me, but I still might be interested in ideas, concepts or backgrounds of this new music because of my interest for these artists in general. No big deal. But I’m not willing to listen to a CD, that didnt catch my attention, over and over again, just to give a noname the same chance. That noname has yet to catch my interest – if that’s not gonna happen at first listen, then poor me.

I’m always interested in new music, thats for sure. But truth is, there is much, much music, that is awesome (to me) and I dont know yet, but there is much, much MORE music out there that I simply dont like. So I wont spend my time to skip through endless lists of noname soundcloud musicians on purpose. Even though I do research artists I stumpled upon that make art that I think of is awesome.

Radam said
I loved every track on FFF when I listened to the album for the first time, I even liked WTF even though I really didn’t like it when it was first revealed, they mixed it better for the album and I could understand every word they said.

I’m 37 so I guess I’ll never grow up. Fuck out of here with your pretentious and condescending insights on why people like what they do. It’s not brand loyalty, I didn’t like a lot of Found as one example.

I’m not saying that my taste is a maturity thing, it’s just that my taste changed from when I was 15 to now. Sometimes I go back, but not often.

I think you just don’t get it. You seem deaf as to why ICP is so dope. I bet if I listened to any of your favourite rappers I’d think they were weak as fuck. Just two totally different tastes in music that will never agree with each other.

ICP’s appeal has always been catharsis, story telling and most of all the humor and fun of it. I don’t find most of it as cathartic as artists that do catharsis better, the story telling these days comes off as pompous, preachy and condescending from people pretending to know better and I don’t find it as funny or fun as other music.

In an industry full of carbon copies and lyrical flows with uninspired meaningless buzzwords, ICP still remain original, creative and interesting.

The industry has actually been filled with more innovation than ever before. I think people that make statements like this are stuck in the 2000s and seem to blindly follow the ‘fuck the mainstream’ motive that’s been branded in the culture as part of ICP’s marketing technique. They put the idea out there and you won’t give mainstream artists the time of day out of wanting to fit the mold of juggalodom. Plus, the mainstream has tons of artists that are actually inspired by ICP. The whole reason the No Jumper interview happened with ICP was because Zillakami said he wants to play the gathering and he admires juggalos.

Further more, while ICP are still original, they have always followed trends. Back in the 90s they went on the gangster rap trend, they jumped on the numetal trend, they jumped on the pop punky bro rock and country rock trend, Lost was trying to imitate the sound that Yeezus innovated and became trendy, on this album they’re trying to do the melodic soundcloud rap stuff.

I honestly can’t even listen to most rap these days because it’s so fucking lame for so many reasons I’d be typing for too long.

Rap is a big genre especially these days. You don’t listen to other rap because you’re not willing to give it a chance because you’ve been so used to ‘fuck the mainstream’ being pounded in your head for years.

Everyone these days seems to geek out over cunts rapping fast and all I think when I hear that shit is wow that cunt spoke fast and said so many words but really didn’t say a damn thing, nothing original and mostly just the same tired crap that I hear from most rappers.

I 100% Agree, I’m sick of cornball rappers trying to be Tech N9ne. People will herald them as lyricists but I can tell you that most of it isn’t any more complex then what the mumblers are doing.

If it’s not that it’s some cunt who sounds like he is about to fall asleep or die in a coma.

I don’t know if you can say that about City Morgue, Tekashi Snitch9, J.I.D., Joey Badass, Jpegmafia, Death Grips, XXXTentacion, $uicideboy$, etc.

It’s like listening to a flock of parrots squawking the same noises at each other.  

I’d argue that you don’t actually listen to enough of these artists to have a proper opinion since you’ve most likely boxed your hip hop taste into the very limited juggalo category.

T.O. said

King Lucem Ferre said
I’m only half trolling, but still kind of an important question.

I’m just going to ignore the first half of that sentence and take you serious.

Something that I think anybody who enjoys art needs to consider is making sure you support art that you actually like rather than supporting artists out of a loyalty or a novelty. There’s so much content out there that it’s hard for artists to thrive in this competitive market. I think the artists that should get the shine or the attention are the ones that are making good art rather than mediocre ones out of a loyalty or novelty because it creates an environment of mediocre art while the good art fades away. A good example of this happening is with a lot of soundcloud artists who go out of their way to get attention because they know people will support their mediocre art out of the novelty of the artist’s outrageous persona. Another problem is supporting your homie’s art just because they are your homie even though their art is trash. It turns things into a popularity game and mediocre art rises because mediocre artists have more friends than the wonderful artists. More so it creates an environment for clout chasers and money hungry artists that have no passion for their craft to thrive because they can exploit the system to work in their favor. This is totally something that happens in the juggalo culture because plenty of juggalos have flat out admit to only supporting artists because they were signed to Psychopathic or because they repped for juggalos. So I have no doubt in my mind that there are juggalos that would try to force themselves to like ICP music that they don’t really like out of loyalty to the juggalo brand. That could be you, could not be you. I’m sure everybody thinks their self awareness is at peak levels though.

I think you are oversimplifying art and why people are interested in any kind of art.

Of course there are some songs, movies, paintings, whatever, that you are just into because you like it, where you don’t care about or know much about the context around it.

I agree that context does play in important roll on the enjoyment of art.

But when it comes fandoms, there’s much more to it. You get interested in the context around it and that leads you to listen differently. A dope song by an artist that I’m already interested in, appears a little bit doper to me than a song by an unknown rapper that in and by itself would be just as dope. That doesn’t mean that I’m not going to give the new dude a chance or anything.
I guess it does mean that I’m biased, but that’s not because I merely want to like that song more. The reason why I get more out of that song is because I have knowledge of the context around it, at that point it is not exclusively about the song anymore.

I think there’s a difference between appreciating something based on the context do to your fandom and trying to force yourself to like something out of loyalty. I’m not saying that any of you do that, or that all juggalos do that, but it does happen a lot in the juggalo world. I know LBT and Smack both admit to only supporting artists just because they are juggalo associated. So when I hear OMD making excuses and trying to do all this extra shit in the hopes that he likes the music more than he does it comes off as that.

I’ll get more of the references, I can put it in contrast to other things (eg previous albums), I get a more complete picture of the person behind the art because I’ve seen the progression over the years, etc, etc.

There are just so many more layers that I already have access to.
And that’s part of the art. Sometimes people like to act like it isn’t, that the context around the piece of art itself isn’t also part of the art, but it is. That’s why an art critic who has studied an art period for years, will see the paintings from that area differently than somebody who hasn’t (and that doesn’t have to be just pretentious, like some anti-intellectuals like to make it out as).

Take the black paintings by Goya (and I don’t know shit about it, just randomly stumbled across the wikipedia article about it a couple of days ago).

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57f0b8c859cc68fe6a908fb7/57fcb254e58c620da361e3fa/57f5d6a3c030265324fb9013/1544040690836/?format=1500w

here’s an excerpt from wikipedia “After the Napoleonic Wars and the internal turmoil of the changing Spanish government, Goya developed an embittered attitude toward mankind. He had a first-hand and acute awareness of panic, terror, fear and hysteria. He had survived two near-fatal illnesses, and grew increasingly anxious and impatient in fear of relapse. The combination of these factors is thought to have led to his production of the Black Paintings. Using oil paints and working directly on the walls of his dining and sitting rooms, Goya created works with dark, disturbing themes. The paintings were not commissioned and were not meant to leave his home. It is likely that the artist never intended the works for public exhibition: “these paintings are as close to being hermetically private as any that have ever been produced in the history of Western art.”

that’s pretty interesting to me. now imagine if this painting was painted by somebody who’s just into dark shit and wanted to paint something dark for the sake of it. it wouldn’t be as interesting and I’d view it differently, eventhough purely technically the paintings would be exactly the same. that doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t like the picture if it were painted by some instagram artist who’s just into dark shit, I would, It’d consider it a dope painting, but knowing the actual background of it, it just elevates it.

That’s why I don’t see a problem with lending much more attention to art that you are already interested in for whatever reason vs. new art, as long as you don’t completely close yourself off to it.  

I 100% agree on the context of art mattering and giving it more personal value, especially since most hip hop, or most good hip hop, is extremely personal. That’s not what I’m critiquing though. I’m critiquing the hoops somebody would go through to try and enjoy an album they don’t really enjoy out of loyalty. One of my favorite artists is Lupe Fiasco. He dropped a trash album called Drogas Light. This is an artist that you need context for, he’s an artist who’s word play and lyrics are so intelligently done that his hardcore fans spend years deciphering all the hidden meanings behind his lyrics. After a few plays I didn’t make excuses for it, or try to create new contexts for me to enjoy it, I just acknowledged it as a trash album. Which is cool because Drogas Wave completely made up for it, best album of 2018.

Old Mr Dangerous said

Yep, and I’m 35 and I liked a lot of Found. Proof right there that lots of Juggalos, or just music fans in general, do not just follow brand loyalty.

So you liking an ICP album is proof that you’re not just being loyal to ICP?

And, man… wow… Lucem…. everyone that has posted since you did has made a tremendous amount more sense than you do.

I think most of it misunderstood my point and the terrible blanket statements on hip hop are absolutely born out of ignorance from people that put themselves into an echo chamber out of brand loyalty.

I believe that you harbor a resentment towards certain things in life. You are the modern definition of a hipster, no doubt. Many of us have wondered why you even still post on this site. 

The modern definition of a hipster is somebody that goes out of their way to champion obscure art while they pretentiously bash anything that’s popular. The whole “I liked it before it was cool” thing comes from that. If anything that absolutely falls in line with juggalos. They will hate anything that is popular just for being popular while they champion anything that’s ‘underground’ hip hop. Then they claim they were doing things before it were cool. Wouldn’t fit me because I like Kanye. Hipsters don’t like Kanye.

When you come and grace us with your super refined, ultra hip Utah underground passion project masterpiece theatre music God mentality, do you tell yourself you’re just “slumming”? Are the rest of us Insane Clown Posse fans just a bunch of hood rats to you? Like… hey, man. I’m not one to judge at all! I have had my sordid dippings in the scrubby pool of ghetto ass pussy bitches here and there. No shame in that. Something about the girls in them old pajama pants just does it for me, ya know? Easily accessible, maybe. Are we your hood rats? You like to take a bi weekly break from your bourgeois brunch with the trust fund children and try and get some real, gritty experience points with the unwholesome individuals to further cement your status as King of All? 

I just like to challenge things. Challenge the traditional way people think. I do it with everybody. I think you may have taken it personally because there might be a bit of truth to what I said.

Joking aside, perhaps reassess the motives behind your hobbies. Does it kick your endorphins and dopamine in when you type these words on your telemaphone? If it does, then why do you think that is? It has to be, in my guess, an attempt to appear intellectually/ spiritually superior to me and others on here for your own self-assurance. You’re an insecure young man. We all are, in ways. This is the place you come to refill that void in your self. That empty spot. Dont fret, baby. I have it, too. I fill it with beer on occasion. Food. Even as we type on here, I am guilty of the same practice as you are: trying to assert my dominance of taste of your own. 

Insecure? Extremely I never denied that. I admit that most of my trolling is half that and half out of the hilarity of it a while ago. This isn’t just that, as I said previously, I like to challenge the traditional way people think when it seems a bit silly to me.

Anyway, to answer some of those disgusting questions…. let’s try Tech N9ne and Strange Music. Do I have brand loyalty with them? I have purchased a few Tech albums in my days. However, as quality and talented as that man is, I don’t care to listen to his newer music. I have tried. Just like with ICP. Sometimes Tech wins me over, other times not. The only artists on that Strange label that I still purchase are Mayday. Because Mayday, about 90% of the time, never leave me dissatisfied with their music. In comparison, I’d say ICP leaves me satisfied 90% of the time. As I’ve said OVER and OVER on here, I enjoy certain facets of ICP that I dont enjoy with say, Eminem. Eminem is super talented. One of the greatest. But I don’t love his voice, and a lot of his cadence and whininess. I cant relate to certain things. So I rarely play him anymore. ICP, when I hear them, a kind of intrigued comfort enters my ears and fires off whatever synapses lead to enjoyment from musical musicky music. Simple, really. You just sit out there in that land of Utahians and think too hard. 

It seems that you are trying too hard to like something more than you do with this album. Key word is seems. If it doesn’t apply to you then disregard it. You can’t pretend that ICP hasn’t built a career around brand loyalty though. You know that there are juggalos that will blindly support anything ICP does. Twiztid too, actually. That’s a huge part of their marketing.

I’ve said before that Lost mostly isnt great. That’s to me. For someone else, they love it. Your homie KuKluxKlown, your spiritual twin of common sense, says Lost is their best album. I call that madness, but to him if it feels right, then who am I to judge? I did judge lol, but it doesnt mean I’m correct.

Don’t lump me in with him. Actually, here’s another controversial critique that might upset you too. I’ve noticed that juggalo culture, while not being racist and shunning racists, tends to attract racist white people more than any other hip hop culture. There’s probably more than you think, just that racists are afraid of being blunt about it. It is essentially a slice of hip hop that is almost exclusively white. It opens the door for white supremacy to benefit off of hip hop or african american culture in a way that I find to be extremely disrespectful. It’s really hard to know who’s who when everybody trashes hip hop that’s not in this culture with blanket statements that come off as borderline bigoted to me.

And yes, there are HUNDREDS of artists, albums, and songs that I have listened to and tried to feel. I dont really have a choice at work. We all switch between YouTube playlists. For instance, with that Drake gentleman. Holy fucking shit. I mean, HOLY shit. How in the FUCK does anyone consider him one of our current greats? Talented? Sure! As talented as my niece playing violin. Drake can “play the violin” in essence. But he isnt anywhere near a “violin great”. So why is society pushing him to keep on pursuing the violin? It’s just a course for him to fill in a liberal arts credit so that he can graduate. In my opinion, which is 100% correct in this case, Drake should finish up the violin course and try to focus on Abnormal Psychology, or Wine Tasting, or Trigonometry. His real niche is NOT the violin. Due to many societal factors (mass delusion, his physical appearance of what females think is supposed to be attractive currently in our pop culture time frame, ignorance of what makes a competent lyricist, etc) we find our young people actually PURCHASING and COMMENTING on this artist Drake as if he is anywhere above the curve average of worthwhile rappers on this planet Earth. There is NOTHING stand out about this young man from a lyrical standpoint. His voice is boring, as well. You who support him based on what you think talent is, are fundamentally WRONG on a level that is staggering in the name of our holy spirit of rationality, togetherness and purpose. 

On the money on Drake. He’s not terrible but he definitely doesn’t deserve his reputation. Could be because he’s a good common ground, like most of his fans only like him moderately but nobody truly loves his music. Definitely some of that same brand loyalty going on with Drake. He’s probably the least challenging artist out there so he’s the easiest for casual music fans to listen to.

And stop trying to make Lil Pump, and all those other wack fucks, happen. It’s not going to happen here.

I don’t like Lil Pump, and I think he’s a great example of mediocre art getting more shine than good art out of novelty. His appeal is supposed to be the fun but there are better artists that are much more fun.

All this and more I want to type, but the other gentleman summed it up best with the single word:

Pretentious.  

You can’t have an opinion with out being pretentious. I do find the blind disregard for any hip hop out side of ICP while claiming that it’s all the same and ICP are the only original artists in hip hop to be far more pretentious than my critique of the FACT that there are juggalos that blindly mold their tastes out of brand loyalty rather than actual music enjoyment.

SUICIDE BOYS & DEATHGRIPS ARE AWESOME

MISSING LINK LOST WAS THE BEST ICP HAS DONE IN AWHILE

FFF WAS GREAT PRODUCTION WISE. BUT THE CONTENT WAS NOT FOR MY PREFERENCE

I HONESTLY CANT IMAGINE WHO WOULD BE LISTENING TO THIS

OTHER THAN JUGGALOS THAT ONLY LISTEN TO ICP NO MATTER WHAT AND NOTHING ELSE

You’re right about how any kind of white musician can attract those racist types. I personally used to hang out with a self-proclaimed “redneck” who claimed to love ICP. Ignoring all of their Piggy Pies and Hunted Chickens. He even went as far as to say that Tech N9ne was “music for the white people”. I bet Tech would love to hear that…. in a Shyamalanic twist, this dude is actually from the city, and I was raised in the country. He claimed to be a redneck. I myself am an actual rural guy, but never claimed hillbilly or redneck. So some people are confused about their identity no matter what. Just doomed from the start… they see “fellow racists” where they dont really exist. But they are the minority.

And people blindly supporting things for those reasons IS stupid. Did I disagree about that? Nope. I’m saying dont “lump me in” like i did with you and KKK.

As far as personal attacks, I would be lying if I denied saying that I get pleasure from talking clever shit to people that I am currently in a debate with. It spices things up, makes the whole thing a bit more interesting. I dont want the whole thing to delve into a complete bore… like having a Juggalo Gathering at the Snow Park Outdoor Amphitheater in Utah .

Lastly, you gave credit to the Insane Clown Posse for understanding and paying homage and being real hip hop. Thank you. You have some kind of sense down deep in that fuzzy brain.

jiggles the clown said

my OMD style of hyperbole, intensity, intelligence, integrity and the urge to make anyone reading smile a bit. Because I’m a funny, smart guy. 

 

Thats the funniest thing youve ever said.

The fact that you probably actually believe it? Makes it hilarious.  

How does Lucem’s dick taste? 

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages, sit back and witness the three way FLH forum death match.

OMD v. Lucem v. Jiggles

Three log on, only one logs out alive. It’s getting crazy y’all. Bible length replies, Elementary School quips, Gifs and memes, Oh My.

Take a seat and keep hitting that refresh button y’all…this is getting goooooood.

Fellas, back to you in the studio…

Old Mr Dangerous said

  

Look brah. Nobody wants to know about your asshole seepage issues.

Old Mr Dangerous said
W

So since you have apparently sampled my sphincter, what did it taste like? You said Lucems dick probably tasted like my anus. You claim to be able to compare it to my asshole. Which is better? Do you prefer it to Wendy’s chili?  

No. I said it probably taste like your asshole because you two seem like he fucks you in the ass a lot.