krunkazphuk said

You can keep calling things facts, but that doesn’t make them facts. I said “I’ll draw my own conclusions about how peaceful BLM is based on their actions.” Seems reasonable. Open, honest discussions about statistical trends may require more than one or two exchanges before sinking into name-calling or declaring another’s freedom “to have a logically fallacious view.” I know you’re not down with formal education, but Shapiro is a Constitutional lawyer from Harvard, so in a pinch I suspect I’d choose him over you to defend me from a leftist lynch mob. (And to lighten the mood, King, if you send me your mom’s address in hell I’ll send her some knee pads.)   

I stated the statistical facts that prove he’s wrong. So you are going to willfully follow somebody who I proved wrong based on education. You are a simple minded sheep. Simple minded because you refuse to except the fact that somebody with less education could have more information than somebody with more education. And a sheep because you choose to blindly follow somebody based on status.

You started the name calling. I called HIM a liar, and a crook because he is a liar and a crook that I PROVED distorts facts.

I didn’t say your freedom is a logically fallacious view. I just said that you have the freedom to believe in something that is logically fallacious. And I proved that your view is logically fallacious.

If you want to spend more time telling me I’m wrong because I’m not a lawyer go ahead. But I did PROVE that he was wrong, I did not just declare that he was wrong. And you have the freedom to believe in which ever side you want, ignore the facts and follow based on status rather than logic.

I know you of all people aren’t gonna start talking shit telling ME to lighten up, I’m sure your husband gets tired of trying to convince us that you aren’t a dumb cranky bitch.

86, you just told me you were not going to lump those people in with BLM. Now you reverse that?

Nyro, I said that BLM was about telling people that black lives matter in a country where there is no justice for innocent black people killed by cops. I did not say their main purpose is about every race, I just pointed out that they are the only ones that actually talk about people of other races being killed by cops while the fake All Lives Matter people do nothing.

Nyro said
I wasn’t going to post on this topic again but after reading this convo and how it has gone since last I post I have to point out the complete stupidity going on here (no offense but yeah it is).

I said “The entire point of BLM is to say that Black people have it worse”.

To which the response were something similar to “No BLM stands for all racial inequality”

THEN as the convo furthers on the same people supporting BLM on here use the argument “Blacks are more likely to (blank)” or “Blacks get targeted more by cops”….see the hypocrisy here….so which one is true?

Does BLM stand on the premise blacks have it worse and are therefor liars?

OR

Are you guys the type of BLM members that twist their message to suit your own purposes?

 

Because honestly all I hear from BLM supporters in this discussion is “Poor black people this and poor black people that”.  

BLM addresses lots of racial inequality, usually systemic and tied to law enforcement. They’ve reported a lot more than just what happens to black people and have taken a hard stance against all police brutality and other forms of judicial inequality that directly impacts people of color (disproportionately black, but all POC).

You talk about how your people have it worse, and I cited 1, a BLM article about how Natives actually do face more instances of police brutality and you deflected it with some nonsense about reservations. I didn’t reply because I’ve been away from my computer and didn’t have time, but there are native americans who don’t live on or near reservations, and many who live on reservations and go out of their jurisdiction. Those people are, according to BLM, the ethnic group most likely to be assaulted by police. 2, talking about the likelihood of one type of person of color, say black people, being murdered by police does not erase the information that other POC also face that discrimination. Further, there are other types of abuse which ARE directly targeting black people, like harsher prison sentences for the same crime.

Someone up thread posted that crack gets a harsher sentencing than cocaine, so it’s a class issue not a race issue, but the truth of the matter is that even when they are in the same social class, black people (and other people of color) face increasingly harsher sentences, do a larger percentage of their time, and are generally perceived as more likely to reoffend. And it’s based on nothing but racial prejudice.

But this is why intersectionalism is important. Because we can look at the way race and class intersect. How do they work together? 

Well, one primary way they work together is the fact that historically we, as a nation, have kept people of color, black or otherwise, from owning land, both in legal cases such as it was illegal for people of certain races to buy property in certain areas, and also through fiscal pressure. In chicago, for example, it was illegal for Black people to live in certain areas, so we built housing units. Then, per capita, we paid black people less in wages and regarded them as generally unhireable while charging them considerably more for rent. 

There were also things called hog laws, all over the country, which allowed police to arrest black people for no real crime, but made up crimes. You’ve heard about absurd laws in a lot of states like “you can’t walk a goat across the field on tuesday”. These kinds of laws were created specifically to target black people. Then, while in prison, they were worked to death in slave labor camps. At a time when men were considered primary bread winners, black women had to be out there taking whatever jobs they could get to pay exceptionally high rents, in neighborhoods that were too crowded because of housing units, and with too little support. This was, roughly, the 20s or so. 

Then repeatedly, through out our nations history we continue to find ways to fiscally limit black people and other people of color, so that their economic futures are limited.

Another fantastic example is more recent. Public school funding being tied to property taxes, with the districts being drawn to disadvantage people of color. A very recent case was brought to my attention a few years ago of a woman who used her parents address when registering her child for school so that he could go to a better school than the one in her district. She was arrested. Why? The property taxes were paid. The child lived part time in both homes. The reason she was arrested was class based discrimination AND race.

They work in concert a lot. They can even work against each other. 

But the reason I say that oppression olympics are a waste of time, is because we all prioritize our own suffering or the suffering that is most apparent to us. So you think that Native American’s had it “the worst”, while maybe Dereay Mckesson thinks that black people have it “the worst”. It’s all a matter of perspective and really it’s a waste of time because the only people who have it easy are people like Donald Trump. Wealthy, able bodied, cis, heterosexual, white men. Everybody else is fighting an uphill battle that is in some ways harder for us and some ways easier.

For my part, I identify as cis, hetero white latino male. My dyslexia, my economic status, and my latinx heritage all play a role in the oppression I face, which means I have some privileges but not as many as Donald Trump. And, for that matter, Hillary Clinton is a wealthy and apparently able bodied white woman. She faces gender based oppression and so as a man I have certain privileges over her, but because of her wealth and her apparent status as abled, and being entirely white, she has a lot of privileges that I do not.

Bringing it back to BLM. They want an end to the system that enables police violence which includes cover ups, which despite what 86 keeps insisting, does indeed happen.

For instance, with mike brown, there is no evidence that he assaulted the cop, but we take the cops word for it. So if we discount the assault, what else do we have? We have a prosecutor which LIED to the jury about what the law was, using a law that was ruled illegal 30 years ago, as justification for the shooting. That’s not conjecture. It’s a fact. We also know that the cop that shot Mike Brown was originally from a police department that was shut down for having racially biased practices. Again, that’s an historical fact. You can google it. Another thing that you don’t have to take anybodies word for: He testified that he thought Mike Brown had super powers. He called Mike an “it” and a “demon”. 

This killing was called justified despite the overwhelming evidence that there was more to the story. But the police lie. The police protect themselves and they distort truths.

Another example: There was a kid whose name I forget from a few months ago in Chicago, the police shot him and claimed that he pulled a weapon on the officer that shot him. Then they “lost” the dash cam video which was later leaked, the day after the officer was cleared. The video shows him brutally murdering an unarmed kid. 

Another example: Tamir Rice. Video evidence directly contradicted police reports that they shouted at him to put the “gun” down repeatedly. The video shows that they fired on him in less than a second, the police car still rolling and the cop halfway out the door, as he shouts for the first time to drop the weapon. The gun shot goes off -while- he’s shouting. Cop isn’t charged.

Another example:  

This kid doesn’t die, luckily, but he is arrested which means he’s violating his probation (even though he did nothing wrong) and had to go to jail. Because he spent time in jail, he lost his job and was dropped from the classes he was taking a local community college.

Watch the video. The police -repeatedly- lie about having asked him for ID. They -repeatedly- lie to make this his fault, not theirs. It’s their first instinct. They try to cover their ass. Everybody does. Everybody would. It’s natural to want to protect yourself and the people you know.

There doesn’t need to be a global conspiracy, there just needs to be a few people who want to protect the people they know. Lie on some paperwork. It took SECONDS for them to taser this dude, when he literally did nothing wrong. He asked them what they said, and they tasered him. They told him he had a warrant and he rightly said he did not. He told them to look at his ID, they told him he was lying and continued to manhandle him.

Then when they finally look at his ID, they mistakenly say that he is a match for the suspect they are looking for. 

Wow you cunts are still going at it. *shakes head and leaves*

Nyro said
  

LOL Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatterfree!

But you are not countering anything. I stated factual evidence that proves systematic racism is happening. I stated factual evidence that the BLM movement is not nearly as violent as you made out to be. Neither has been addressed. No, really, do that thing where you take my whole quote, separate each point I made and try to counter them. If you can’t counter each point then perhaps you should reconsider your stance.

It’s not about whether or not the cops are white, it’s a about a system where innocent black people can be killed and get no justice. It’s about a system that promotes stereotyping a race to fill a quota. It’s about a system that will give black people harsher sentences. It’s about a system where we think it’s okay for police to kill unarmed black people for self defense when they walk white mass shooters to police cars. You said nothing that disproves that. You only deny it despite the facts that prove it.

The black on black crime is a completely separate issue and it is not the source of systematic racism. I don’t need dumb ass articles when I already put up the stats that prove your ‘point’. It’s completely fucked up that you think it’s okay for police to kill black people because of it. You know the huge fucking difference between black on black crime and cop on black crime? The black person will go to jail, the black person is held accountable. The cop is not held accountable. That is the fucking problem. And maybe the cultural problem of respecting black people’s lives can be addressed as soon as our own fucking system can learn to respect black people’s lives. You know what? I’ve already pointed out two sources where voices of BLM discussed black on black crime being an issue. The people of DEHH and Kendrick Lamar.

For the millionth time, this isn’t about flat out racism, it’s about institutional racism. So you’re little story about how you were treated is irrelevant to anything. You know why? Because it wasn’t you’re government harassing you for being white. You think racism is bad, you think that made you feel like shit? Imagine knowing that your government treats you like that and imagine all the assholes telling you to quit crying over it. Then imagine people telling you that it doesn’t matter how the government treats you because of how you treat yourself.

So what, you don’t think that better training and recruiting methods for police officers is not a viable or realistic solution? You don’t think revising drug laws is a viable or realistic solution? You don’t think regulations meant to restrict racial discrimination with in the court is a viable or realistic solution? Having the police force held responsible for it’s fuck ups is not a viable or realistic solution? Getting rid of the quota that forces cops to make criminals is not a viable or realistic solution? How about having the police in these communities do more to reach out to the community and treat them like human beings that they protect and serve rather than zoo animals that need to be caged?

And I’m not a liberal. Don’t label me to dehumanize or delegitimize my stance the same way you are trying to do with BLM.

https://youtu.be/9h9b6NWAkFk

My buddy who passed away…his dad was or is i dunno part of the cia. He would do shit like “oversee” elections in Panama.

His basement was pacjed with fucken all type of guns and sealed boxes and shit. Sime dusty most not. He was a fucjen basterd and hes going to burn in fucken hell.

Ge was CONVINCED there would be a race war. That shit always just stuck in my head. 

https://youtu.be/Iccmrt89FFk