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Where are the lines of morality anymore?
August 15, 2016
2:59 pm
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Nyro
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So for the last couple of years we have all watched as the racial divide gets crazier and crazier. I remember growing up it wasn’t that bad. Sure you had the occasional “getting back at daddy by sleeping with a black guy” thing that hardly ever ended in violence but overall all the races got along just fine…now all of a sudden we are supposedly taking HUGE steps backwards in racial equality. I thought we were doing well, you see tons of minority athletes, politicians and even doctors and lawyers and teachers. Society seemed alright. Sure you have a high number of minorities in prisons…the issue there is more the fact most minorities live in inner cities where the temptations are way too high.

ALL this aside. A Black cop shoots and armed black man in Milwaukee and they burn the city down. This isn’t even a controversial issue. The man was armed. They have it on camera. So why riot? Why burn down your own neighborhoods? Why STILL blame the white man?

As a pro-gun kind of guy. I live in Texas. I hunt and fish. I save A LOT of money by hunting instead of going to the grocery store. By A LOT I mean during the right seasons my bill for meat is damn near non-existent except for my tag fees and fishing license and sometimes Texas has free doe tags because we tend to get overpopulated with deer. HOWEVER now I find myself physically disabled so what did we do 7 months ago? We bought a couple of guns for self defense also. My wife caries one on her at all times. Simply because people are allowed to act like idiots without much of a consequence nowadays. They can destroy things, throw stuff at you and even assault you but if you react with violence then YOU are the bad guy? Screw that, I am tired of it. You fuck with me and mine and I WILL end you period. IF you ever put me or my family in danger I will not hesitate to use any means necessary to make sure we are safe.

This entire nonsense is getting old really fast and I fear one day decent people are going to have enough and there will be a lot more blood on the streets then there already is.

 

What do you guys think about the Milwaukee situation and just the current tensions in general?

Whoop Whoop Nyro :

King Lucem Ferre
August 15, 2016
4:29 pm
Noah Fence
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I don’t really know the specifics of the thing going on in Milwaukee but here are some things to consider:

When we had the riots in LA after Rodney King, the comments along the lines of “they’re destroying their own neighborhood! What animals” ect were thrown about. But the thing is, most of the people rioting were just fed up and angry at feeling powerless.  Sometimes all you can do is say fuck this shit. 

The second amendment was written, apparently, only for white people.

Image Enlarger

These people are not perceived as a threat, yet when John Crawford picked up a pellet gun that was on sale, he was shot and killed for being armed.

 

Image Enlarger

All three of these guys were armed, active shooters when they were arrested. The guy in the center even had bombs set up in his apartment to kill police who searched for evidence against him. Why was their life protected? why were police able to find a way to arrest them? 

What’s going on in Milwaukee is really interesting because only two  or three weeks ago I was reading an article about how Wisconsin is the worst state to live in if you are black. The amount of income inequality between races, the number of laws that disproportionately target people of color, the amount of heavy policing in black communities. 

This article was written almost a year and a half ago

This is from 6 years ago

An historical look at race in Milwaukee (as of 2011)

Another from late last year

Whoop Whoop Noah Fence :

OCJ_Brendan

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

August 15, 2016
5:21 pm
Slumerican502
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It’s a very complex situation. I don’t think anyone has the answers to it. I don’t think it’s racial inequality(though there definitely is) as much as it is class inequality.

People need to feel like they have a degree of control over their life, and this perceived us vs the police mentality is just compounding on that feeling. People need a way to blow off steam. Elections can be a way to help this, but people aren’t even happy with this election at the moment.

THIS is how revolutions start. Everyone has this feeling building up inside of them and no way to let off steam.

I think these things are going to get worse before they get better. I do think it will get better though.

It will have to start with police and police procedures. They DO target lower class citizens. A bunch of em happen to be black.

Its kind of a cycle. You pull over a poor black/white person for expired tags or no insurance. He doesn’t have insurance cuz he is fucking broke. So you take him to jail. He can’t make it to work and gets fired.

Now, if he does manage to find another job, he is breaking the law driving to work everyday because you suspended his license for no insurance the first time.

You pull him over again, for driving with no license. What fucking choice does he have though? He’s gotta risk it.

Now he is locked up again and loses another job. Now his license gets revoked instead of suspended.

Now he is holed up in his project apartment or trailer selling dope, because it is safer than working a legit job and being out on the road. It’s a perpetual cycle that leads nowhere, because he(or she) was fucking broke in the first place.

 

What Im trying to say is, when poor people feel like they are in a cage this is the shit that tends to happen.

As far as the lines of morality, they are wherever you wanna draw them.

Whoop Whoop Slumerican502 :

scruffy, DrFreshness, OCJ_Brendan, Split, Old Mr Dangerous, pondo
August 15, 2016
6:24 pm
scruffy
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more than a little truth in slums post. 

this retired cop i know, told me a couple years ago that the two things that killed his love of the job were that he only really caught the dumb crooks that made it easy, and that he realized that he, himself, had created many criminals over the years, through his policing

 

i believe my sister was one of em, and told him so.  he basicly agreed, without bein specific. 

this guy used to chase me or my people around damn near on a daily basis.  apparently, at some point, it occurred to him that fuckin with stoned people to fill quotas mostly only resulted in taking kids who were gonna do somethin with their lives, and turning some of em into legit drains on society. 

 

all that said, slum, we are still pretty far from actual revolution.  if anything close to a real revolt [an armed revolt that actually has a prayer] begins within the next ten years, ill be fuckin shocked. 

Whoop Whoop scruffy :

OCJ_Brendan, Old Mr Dangerous

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

August 15, 2016
8:42 pm
OCJ_Brendan
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I watched a fascinating episode of a show on a cross country flight about how in Louisiana the for profit prison system is kept alive by a vicious cycle of a three strike rule and a simple possession of weed, along with certain traffic stuff being low class felonies.  

The whole federal law enforcement grant system is based on successes aka arrests, and weed and traffic stuff are easier to cast a wide net and get more bodies into cells.  If you combine that with the ease that paroles and probation get revoked you’ve got a whole non violent workforce subsidized by the federal government.  Its a win win for the cops and prison companies and companies that use inmates to make office furniture and licence plates and the such.

To bring it home

"Somewhere theres a Waffle House thats severely understaffed right now" -OCJ to Scruffy watching a second stage act at the Gathering.

August 15, 2016
9:12 pm
bayAreaShaman
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I dont want to talk about race on here any more. Ill rather you be my friend no matter if you hate me for something stupid or or got me in some stupid category all summed up in your head or see me as a diffren breed of human that needs to be studied and feared or what fucken ever. 

Use your heart and just make sure when it come to you, you treat people right. What else can you do? 

Protest on Washington?

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Old Mr Dangerous

YOU KNOW THEY AINT NO SUCH THING AS LEFTOVER CRACK!!!- Leftover Crack

August 15, 2016
9:43 pm
DrFreshness
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Another thing is that the people who are involved in this aren’t all coming from the same perspective.  There are some good reasons for people to be pissed off, and some people are out there because of the kind of shit @noah-fence @slumerican502 and @ocj_brendan are talking about.   At the same time, some people are also out there just because they want free shit, or an excuse to wreak havoc or blame their own failures on someone else.  

It’s bullshit to deny the underlying problems that give rise to the anger.  It’s equally bullshit to act like every time someone runs out of Walmart with a flatscreen or sets a car on fire it’s a legitmate expression of those underlying problems.

Whoop Whoop DrFreshness :

bayAreaShaman, Split, OCJ_Brendan, Nyro
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August 15, 2016
10:42 pm
King Lucem Ferre
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None of the racial issues are new in this country, it’s that we are finally getting to look it in the face. And there isn’t some huge divide going on. Try understanding the perspectives of the people in the movement by doing more listening rather than judging.

The whole push back against BLM is hypocritical. White people that love guns claim that if somebody tries to take their guns they will shoot them because it’s a constitutionally protected right to defend yourself against tyranny and corruption yet wants to declare an innocent peaceful and legally armed black man a criminal when he gets held down and executed. How does that murder not prove tyranny and corruption? How is that justified when these same people are saying they’d shoot the cops if they were in that situation?

When black people are getting executed by cops like that the push back says they are overreacting and denies that there is a problem. When one member of the movement shoots a few cops then those same people irrationally declare that there is a race war going on.

When somebody says black lives matter they push back by declaring all lives matter as if black lives matter declares other lives don’t matter, yet when somebody says police lives matter nobody ever thinks they are saying non police lives don’t matter. How is black lives matter anti white but police lives matter not anti citizen? The fucked up part is that if I kill a cop I’m either dying or never seeing the light of day, but if a black person gets killed by a cop the cop gets a slap on the wrist while half of the public tries to justify it. So we don’t need to be reminded that police lives matter when police lives are put up on pedestal as is, we need to be reminded that black lives matter when people can get away with taking them. That sort of anger building up in people is whats leading up to these riots. It’s not rational, there is no thought put into it, it’s an expected result of emotional build up.

 

The lines if morality are not always clear. They never were. Life is way to complex for that.

Whoop Whoop King Lucem Ferre :

bayAreaShaman, scruffy, Noah Fence, Old Mr Dangerous, Neverthrive, Nyro, DrFreshness, pondo
August 15, 2016
10:59 pm
King Lucem Ferre
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And most people that you talk to in the movement will tell you that race relations are getting better and better, nobody thinks they are getting worse. That’s the media drumming it up for ratings. Like, the media won’t show the innocent white people dying. (though members of BLM will cover it) The media also won’t focus on peaceful riots. The media goes with what gets the most ratings and that’s conflict. If the media paid as much attention to the message rather than the controversy people wouldn’t be running around panicking over a false race war.

Whoop Whoop King Lucem Ferre :

Noah Fence, Nyro
August 15, 2016
11:07 pm
King Lucem Ferre
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Me personally, I want to see more riots and chaos and rage consume the streets. I want to see America consume it’s self in destruction. I want to see America start to drown in the same blood that founded it. I feel that’s only morally right. America’s self destruction as it’s sins that we’ve tried to hide from rot us from the inside. My worst fear is guilt and I feel as though it’s time this country is consumed by it.

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Nyro
August 15, 2016
11:46 pm
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86
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Mene mene tekel upharsin. The writing on the wall. It’s approaching.

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Nyro

"I Just Wanna Hide Inside My Own Private Hell"- Boondox

August 16, 2016
12:36 am
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Nyro
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I am not bullshitting when I say if someone messes with me or my family or tries to take our guns I will fight back. I will.

Like a wild animal against the wall is literally how I feel.

Also let’s not pretend that Milwaukee guy was a legal gunowner. He was a felon. Felon’s can’t own guns legally in ANY state. He was charged with reckless endangerment of a child twice. As well ass accessary to a shooting previously. The Milwaukee man wasn’t a victim people are using this instance to add to other LIGITIMATE corruptions.

For me personally I can not support any movement that can’t recognize the difference between justified anger and plain retardation. Protesting a man obviously 100% in the wrong’s shooting is pure stupidity.

Remember that guy pedaling bootleg cigs at the storefront and the 5 cops choked him knowing he had a bad heart and he died on the sidewalk? THAT was injustice…not this Milwaukee crap.

 

@lucem-ferre I have no guilt. Of course my bloodline may differ from yours lol.

Whoop Whoop Nyro :

King Lucem Ferre
August 16, 2016
12:52 am
Noah Fence
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The thing about the black lives matter movement is that it’s not about instances of racist cops, it’s about the inherent injustice in a racially biased police system. 

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

August 16, 2016
1:19 am
Noah Fence
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It’s also worth pointing out that the black lives matter organization and movement has rejected the violence, even violence against property, time and time again. They are a peaceful movement. 

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

August 16, 2016
1:53 am
King Lucem Ferre
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No living individual has guilt from this country’s past but the country as a whole does.

I’m not talking about the Milwaukee guy, I’m talking about Baton Rouge guy. Sad that I can’t even keep up with the shootings anymore. And what’s worse than an actually criminal getting killed inciting protests is how many people try to make the innocent ones out to be criminals when they aren’t so every time an actual criminal is killed we don’t know if it’s an actual criminal or just more slander and propaganda being used to justify it. Then again, I don’t think they care if he deserved it or not, I think they are just fed up.

Like a wild animal against a wall is how many of them feel.

Whoop Whoop King Lucem Ferre :

Noah Fence
August 16, 2016
2:46 am
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Nyro
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Noah Fence said
It’s also worth pointing out that the black lives matter organization and movement has rejected the violence, even violence against property, time and time again. They are a peaceful movement.   

They may be against it but many of their members/supporters do it. That is a fact. If you would like I can show you many videos of Black lives matter supporters trashing places and looting and even punching reporters.

 

King Lucem Ferre said
No living individual has guilt from this country’s past but the country as a whole does.

I’m not talking about the Milwaukee guy, I’m talking about Baton Rouge guy. Sad that I can’t even keep up with the shootings anymore. And what’s worse than an actually criminal getting killed inciting protests is how many people try to make the innocent ones out to be criminals when they aren’t so every time an actual criminal is killed we don’t know if it’s an actual criminal or just more slander and propaganda being used to justify it. Then again, I don’t think they care if he deserved it or not, I think they are just fed up.

Like a wild animal against a wall is how many of them feel.  

I am not saying there are not injustices. I am saying in the aftermath of these riots/protests innocents are getting beat up based on their race. Many of them innocent also. We can not as human beings justify violence against people based on their race simply because a few rotten individuals of that race offended us or hurt someone we know. That is not justice it is barbarism. I live in a town 67% minority. The white people get bullied, beat up and even raped DAILY. Daily one of those things happens and it is almost always Black on White crime.

I have no reason to be defending anyone actually except my wife is white. I am Hispanic/Native with maybe 10% caucasion or less. The fact is I think MANY people use the message BLM is trying to send to their advantage to basically terrorize and loot and be thugs. That doesn’t mean the goal or principle of BLM is wrong it just means I personally think a shit ton of these people use it as an excuse to be assholes.

Whoop Whoop Nyro :

King Lucem Ferre
August 16, 2016
10:54 am
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Noah Fence said
It’s also worth pointing out that the black lives matter organization and movement has rejected the violence, even violence against property, time and time again. They are a peaceful movement.   

What they say and what they do are two different worlds entirely.

https://youtu.be/FCo5_TJnxdY

Whoop Whoop 86 :

Radam

"I Just Wanna Hide Inside My Own Private Hell"- Boondox

August 16, 2016
1:57 pm
Noah Fence
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86 said

What they say and what they do are two different worlds entirely.

https://youtu.be/FCo5_TJnxdY  

The thing is, there’s an organization called black lives matter, which is centered around a movement for positive change, and then there are people who are angry and who react. Black Lives Matter as an organization and a movement does not include all black people upset about police violence.

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

August 16, 2016
3:23 pm
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Nyro
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Noah Fence said

The thing is, there’s an organization called black lives matter, which is centered around a movement for positive change, and then there are people who are angry and who react. Black Lives Matter as an organization and a movement does not include all black people upset about police violence.  

One major issue for me is one of the female founders and two of their major organizers are convicted felons.  Being an activist is one thing ignoring their past is a complete other thing. 

If a person was convicted of indecency with a child in the past but changed their life around would you hire them as a kindergarten teacher?  Same principle you don’t appoint criminals to lead anti-establishment rallies or protests. 

We all know America has issues but one of the biggest issues is leadership.  BLM is no different out of six key players three are criminals. 

Whoop Whoop Nyro :

King Lucem Ferre
August 16, 2016
3:52 pm
Noah Fence
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So you are telling me that people who are arrested for a crime and serve their time are unable to grow and reform and want to see legitimate changes made to the way people are policed?

Shaggy has a criminal record. Should we stop listening to his music? I mean, c’mon, we can’t ignore the past.

Also, I’m finding no confirmation of any of the founders being convicted felons. I’m not sure where you got the information, but it just isn’t anything I’m finding. Which of the three women do you claim is a convicted felon? That might help my search. 

Anyway, no one was “appointed” to lead the movement. They created a non profit and sparked a movement. They chose to challenge police corruption and racial bias. Any criminal past they may have is irrelevant because they have a right to protest and organize just like anybody else.

It’s also true that the judicial system and policing are extremely biased against people of color, so any criminal record the women posses is suspect. 

Whoop Whoop Noah Fence :

Nyro, Old Mr Dangerous, djscrubb

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

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