No

Nyro said

Jester said
How About Saying Something That Is Gonna Benefit PSY. Not Someone Who Is Just Gonna Use Them For Promotion. How Is Someone Who Took Advantage Of The Situation, Gonna Benefit ICP Or PSY At All.    Ill Wait…….. 

They took advantage of his genre and style first. Esham did horrorcore first.

 

ICP simply did it better. That is the simple fact of the situation. I feel like you are now just hating on a situation you knew absolutely nothing about. Just because ICP took horrorcore to the next level does not mean they created it or made it relevant.

I thought I was a delusional nut rider of icp but bro you take the cake. Let me give you some basic facts.

Esham helped ICP become relevant in Detroit. He helped slang dog beats around a little and he paved the way for their transition from gangster rap to horrorcore. FACT

ICP was in the poor house before Carnival of Carnage.FACT

Esham helped get dog beats and Carnival of Carnage to local radio stations. FACT

ICP took Esham success with the horrorcore genre to the next level after Esham already made it relevant in the underground. FACT

No Esham, no ICP as we know them today. (This one is an opinion because no one could truly know this)

Not To Mention I Think ICP Payed There Dues Back To Him A Long Time Ago.

since he left psy everything he has made is complete garbage

icp has their own style,  they took nothing from esham

the only similarity is that they both have said the words ‘wicked shit’

nwa had wicked songs way before esham

Slumerican502 said
So does Bill Gates hafta pay homage and give credit to Alan Turing for microsoft? Sure one led to another, but I definitely wouldnt say esham is responsible for their success. Fuck, he didn’t even have any success of his own. I can name maybe two songs of his I like. Don’t like his flow, don’t like his production, don’t like his attitude.

As far as signing, far as I’m concerned, they need to be dropping people not pickin em up. Focus on ICP for a while. Maybe the music will improve.

 

Edit for spelling (gimme a break my phone has a thousand cracks in it and a mind of its own)

Success on his own? He made half a mil before they were even discovered by him. He was constantly mentioned and involved in the Detroit music scene. The radio stations kept turning ICP down and then Esham started taking dog beats to the local stations with him on interviews to help them out. He is THEIR Dr.see (Eminem reference). Esham said they were cool and bam the respect from the local music scene did a 360 for them. 

Do they owe him? No , but for any fan to dog this guy better damn well have the balls to say dog beats, carnival of carnage and ringmaster sucked because he was highly influential in those.

Slumerican502 said
Dude I know the history front to back. He was a local star. That’s it. Influenced by is as far as I’d go. They have a lot of influences though, ya know? You read the book right? These mother fuckers had drive. They would have made it regardless if you ask me (I know, nobody did XD). Warlock used to argue about this shit on here too. Felt the same way when he did it.

Ultimately it’s a silly thing for us to argue about because unless Doc Brown pops up we’d never know either way. 

 

For the record, dog beats was garbage and Coc does not hold up well.

Well I agree dog beats was garbage it wasn’t horrorcore though either. Coc was mid style change and agree with you there also. Influenced once again I agree.

Where I disagree I guess is the extent of influence. I believe from interviews I heard and things I have read from them that he helped them get their name out there locally which ultimately was a catalyst to their blowing up. If you don’t make it in your home town where you have friends then you don’t make it period especially back then. He was more then just a style influence he was their homie their inside man on the local scene.

As you said though no one would know for sure whether or not they would have made it without him because they had him. Which I am 100% sure they felt blessed a local hero had their back.

darklotusfaygo said
everything esham has done post psy has been wack because he does songs that are like 1 minute long, not even mixed or mastered. he’s been around the game for so long he should  know by now that you should get a cd professionally mixed and mastered and nobody wants to hear 1 min tracks. I lost all respect for him when that happened. I downloaded one of the cds after psy just to check out what he’s doing and I swear there was like 30 songs that were all just 1 min songs that sounded like shit its probably him mixing it and his mixing is ass, it sounds like his shit in the 90s mixing wise. 

Yeah he hasn’t released anything good since leaving psychopathic. Lost respect for him because you felt ripped off or because of the quality? Can’t lose respect just because you think he is shit now. Respect is not something you should lose over a style just say you don’t like his music.

See I respect a lot of artists that I don’t like because they do something I can’t. But if you felt ripped off I get that for sure.

scruffy said
if someone dl’s an album and feels like theyve been ripped off…  they are an ass. 

 

i doubt youd know it, jester, but usually when someone round here starts quoting song lyrics to make a point about things that happen in real life…  well, its generally seen as a bad sign. 

I Made My Point And One Other Gave Valid Points To There Opinion, While Even Disagreeing With Me. Backed Up His Opinion. Sorry I Expressed What I Feel In A Thread Meant For That. And Had Reasoning, And Making A Point About The Shit About Me Being The Type Of Juggalo That Makes People Consider Us A Gang. Because Someone Didn’t Like My Opinion. I Doubt Its All The Fans Fault When They Rap About It On The First 4 Joker Cards. If You Wanna Get Technical Since The Main Reason We Are Here Is The “Music”. Considering Alot Of ICPs Early Shit Has To Do With Gang Activity. I Don’t Need To Be Lectured On Anything You May Think You Know I Don’t. 

I Also Don’t See The Point Of Doing The Opposite What Every Body Sees “As A Bad Sign” About A Thread Expressing What They Think.  Why Have The Forum Then. Are You Saying Because You Don’t Like Someones Opinion, Its Wrong Or Were Lacking Knowledge???

I am so glad ICP made some mellow stuff too. This whole juggalos are a gang thing pisses me off. Some of the youngsters take the lyrics too seriously nowadays it is just music guys.

Not to mention juggalos turning on eachother over their interpretation of lyrics.

You want the message of the music in a nutshell?

” don’t be an evil shitty human being or you will get what’s coming to you” 

scruffy said

Nyro said  
I am so glad ICP made some mellow stuff too.     

actually, sumn i been meanin to mention in the midst of all this yackery about who is what to horrorcore… 

icp isnt reeeally horrorcore. 

i mean, they do horrorcore stuff, sure.  but probably two-thirds or so of their tracks, at least, dont come close to being ‘horrorcore’. 

Hmm….post first set of jokers cards I would agree. But that first set was pretty much the definition of horrorcore but compared to modern day artists they were very mild back then in my opinion.

Esham hasn’t made anything dope since he left psychopathic?

wow, DMT Sessions is probably his dopest shit ever, are you guys just ignoring that release or is that a true opinion?

Get that CD, play it loud in a system and feel the beats/lyrics which are actually saying something and representing a time in his life and how he felt, and on that note none of your opinions are valid any longer. You guys expect these artists to cater to exactly what you want to hear and how you envision THEIR work, that isn’t how art works. Respect the shit for what it is and be thankful these guys are still around sharing their shit with us.

I have known this since the beginning, even juggalos are fucking retards. Most of them. WHOOP WHOOP!!!!

Jason Caffey said
Esham hasn’t made anything dope since he left psychopathic?

 

wow, DMT Sessions is probably his dopest shit ever, are you guys just ignoring that release or is that a true opinion?

 

Get that CD, play it loud in a system and feel the beats/lyrics which are actually saying something and representing a time in his life and how he felt, and on that note none of your opinions are valid any longer. You guys expect these artists to cater to exactly what you want to hear and how you envision THEIR work, that isn’t how art works. Respect the shit for what it is and be thankful these guys are still around sharing their shit with us.

 

I have known this since the beginning, even juggalos are fucking retards. Most of them. WHOOP WHOOP!!!!

Since and before. His shit has always been weak.

@86  I was talking about the sound. It sounds like it was recorded in the early 90s as far as beat selection. Don’t get me wrong, I listened to the fuck out of that cd