Novocaine, The Elusive said
you seem pretty confident in your estimation of 15 years. i disagree, sadly. i support gay marriage whole heartedly, hell if you wanna chain yourself to someone forever, you obviously are gunna be around them regardless of marriage so just fucking let them. but i don’t think alot of people understand that line of thnking. i think that while the church still has some control over the masses (granted its not as much as the victorian era) gay marriage will never truly come to pass. religion is just too heavily ingrained that males must be paired with females.

I agree that religion is too heavily ingrained but you can’t deny that the religious push back is getting weaker and weaker. What you’re seeing more of is the dominant religions accepting gay people as just people. The same thing that they did with slavery, womens rights, working on Sundays, etc. etc. Whether they like to admit it or not, they crumble to societal pressures if society pushes enough. I don’t think that in fifteen years everyone will be holding hands and shit but I do think that admitting to being anti-gay marriage will the equivalent of openly admitting that you’re in the KKK. 

King Lucem Ferre said
It was a mix between me making a joke and me also trying to get people to think about it. I don’t know what to think about the whole gender identity thing. Gay, straight, bi, shemale what ever you are just be that and be proud but people who are having troubles with their gender identity aren’t proud of who they are. What if I decide I want to be black? What if I decide I want to be a dog? What if I decide I want to be liquid rather than solid? It’s another one of those questions of where can you draw the line? Just like if people are born gay they could also be born pedophiles, right?

 

When I go in to the taboo I go deep in to the taboo and hard. So hard and deep into the taboo that the taboo will never forget when I was in it.

I’m not in the situation but like I said, I do know two people that are and from what I’ve heard (anecdotal evidence acknowledged) from them, it’s not that they just “decide” to be another gender, it’s that they legitimately feel like their gender is wrong. As in, looking in the mirror causes panic attacks because they’re in the wrong body. That’s not an “accept who you are” situation. I don’t feel like my vision is blurry and thus need glasses, it just happens and I can choose to do something about it or choose to not do something about it. For a very long time, people with gender issues were considered to be mentally ill by most (outdated) standards. Still are in quite a few states actually. They’re often depressed, manic, and incredibly suicidal. All of those things are symptoms of the issue though, not the problem itself. My proof being that, while gender reassignment doesn’t solve ALL of those problems, it definitely decreases the issues drastically:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/s…..6006000491

Novocaine, The Elusive said
now i know this is going to put me in the shit but fuck it. im gunna say it anyways.

I believe that it is highly probable that transgender people are in a sense mentally ill. now im not saying that they need to be locked up and force fed crazy ass material to make them ‘normal’.

they are not hurting anyone and once they come to a mature age (18 or 21 depending where they are) they re legally entitled to do as they please within the confines of the law.

 

i think that people who look in the mirror  and see a man when they are a woman most likely have a genetic defect that makes them that way. im not sure that calling it a genetic defect it the right word, but you get the idea. i mean you cant just say ‘that guy wants to be a woman, he is normal’. because lets face it, its not. nor will it ever be. im not saying its wrong but i dont think it will ever be normal. there has to be something different in the genetic makeup of people who are like this.

You might not be entirely off, but your “wording” is probably more offensive, for lack of a better term.  Doesn’t offend me, but it might ruffle some feathers.  It could be considered apart of Body Dysmorphic Disorder, but if they want to go through with all of that, good for them.  Plastic with BPA probably isn’t helping, but it seems to me that there is something behind areas that are exposed to nuclear bombs explosions [ie, Las Vegas and Japan].  

i feel this is a good time to get something off my chest here…

in regard to all of these different topics, i would like to say that i grew up in a very close minded environment. when i was growing up i learned from my father that being gay, or trans, is wrong. it’s a illness and said people should be forced to get mental help to fix their issue. whenever anything gay comes on the T.V. my dad would go “OH MY GOD! that’s sick! i’m not into that shit!” and change the channel. now that i’m older, i see the flaw in his actions but i also notice my little brothers (13&16) doing it too. and it doesn’t stop with gays, every day i go to work, i am exposed to my boss (his brother) making racial  comments. we see a black guy walking down the street looking like a stereotypical black gangster or what ever  its “look at that fucking nigger.” or even when refereeing to our customers he refers to them as niggers, or Mexicans, or “fucking Arabs”. now of course they will both claim they are not prejudice, and they don’t outwardly show it when around these types of people, i been working with my uncle on and off since i was 12, and their actions have a lasting impression on a kids mind.

and i have noticed that when i encounter people of differences i subconsciously think in an intolerant mindset. this is a problem i have been battling with for years now, i know it’s not right, but i literally cannot seem to put a stop to those first thoughts being intolerant and offensive. 

PS: i know that don’t have anything to do with our convos but i just felt like i needed to get it out there.

stretchSquiggles said
i feel this is a good time to get something off my chest here…

 

in regard to all of these different topics, i would like to say that i grew up in a very close minded environment. when i was growing up i learned from my father that being gay, or trans, is wrong. it’s a illness and said people should be forced to get mental help to fix their issue. whenever anything gay comes on the T.V. my dad would go “OH MY GOD! that’s sick! i’m not into that shit!” and change the channel. now that i’m older, i see the flaw in his actions but i also notice my little brothers (13&16) doing it too. and it doesn’t stop with gays, every day i go to work, i am exposed to my boss (his brother) making racial  comments. we see a black guy walking down the street looking like a stereotypical black gangster or what ever  its “look at that fucking nigger.” or even when refereeing to our customers he refers to them as niggers, or Mexicans, or “fucking Arabs”. now of course they will both claim they are not prejudice, and they don’t outwardly show it when around these types of people, i been working with my uncle on and off since i was 12, and their actions have a lasting impression on a kids mind.

 

and i have noticed that when i encounter people of differences i subconsciously think in an intolerant mindset. this is a problem i have been battling with for years now, i know it’s not right, but i literally cannot seem to put a stop to those first thoughts being intolerant and offensive. 

 

PS: i know that don’t have anything to do with our convos but i just felt like i needed to get it out there.

i actually have this problem aswell, just on a different level. Australia is an extremely intolerant country. 

I grew up in a remote area where they still used white/coloured entrances to pubs (and still do as far as i know). i was bought up to be tolerant of others by my mother, but in school it was ingrained on us that ‘coloured’ people were wrong (yep, they actually kept anyone not white in seperate classes) and encouraged not to mingle with them. All through high school anyone who was even remotely suspected of being gay (and this was used in an extremely broad way) was relentlessly beat up.

alot of that has gone away now, but still i see so much racism in my peers and it disgusts me. people beat up tourists for asking directions. yep, this still happens in Australia. I remember a german guy oon the news contracted some nasty ass STD after being stabbed with a used needle for not giving a smaoke to some dopefiend.

i have ahd my problems with Aboriginals over the years, but i  dont let it color my opinion of them as a whole.

krunkazphuk said

Novocaine, The Elusive said  
I believe that it is highly probable that transgender people are in a sense mentally ill.

What I find ill is when any group insists that you bow to their views and use their definitions without question. Be whatever you want, but attempt to force your agenda as dogma and, trans or not, you’re a bully.

Novocaine, The Elusive said  
i mean you cant just say ‘that guy wants to be a woman, he is normal’. because lets face it, its not. nor will it ever be.

Smith College (fancy women’s school in Massachusetts) just revised admission policies in line with new views on gender.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/04/…..omen-feat/

Using Wolfpac’s ‘Pole or Hole’ terminology, a man (pole) that identifies as a woman (hole) may be admitted; a woman (hole) that identifies as a man (pole) may not be admitted.

You have a point, but i stand by my point. but im not talking mentally ill in the traditional sense. I personally(key word here) believe that it is a genetic defect that causes this happens to people. I’m not trying to say it is something we can (or should, after all this could be the first steps in the next era of human evolution) change or fix because it isnt a health (mental or physical) problem.

There is also a possibility that this is caused by a distinct increase in the amount of hormones we consume in our food. i mean when i was a kid, transgender wasnt even a thing. the most we ever saw was the occasional Cross dresser (i am aware this is considered a derogatory term, but i forget the correct term. forgive my ignorance). perhaps the increase in genetically modified foods and artificial products in our foods has altered the structure of some peoples genetic make up. I mean some people would be more suceptible than others, but if it is true than the possibility of the number of transgender people increasing significantly over the course of the next say 100 or so years is highly probable.

As for Smith College, i think that is a very positive step in a very positive direction. i tip my hat to them. 

entrappedmind said
Yeah… Uh… I’ve tried as hard as I could to get this to devolve into an angst-fueled fight… And, as pointed out in an earlier post, it’s somehow remained damn near entirely civil…

I’m proud of you fuckers. :)

lol, i think half the problem is we change topics so often that no-one gets to the topic of fighting. i suppose it keeps everyone in a thoughtful mindset. which is good. i am really enjoying his thread. its helping my brain function.

MetalHorrorGuitarWhat said

Novocaine, The Elusive said
now i know this is going to put me in the shit but fuck it. im gunna say it anyways.

I believe that it is highly probable that transgender people are in a sense mentally ill. now im not saying that they need to be locked up and force fed crazy ass material to make them ‘normal’.

they are not hurting anyone and once they come to a mature age (18 or 21 depending where they are) they re legally entitled to do as they please within the confines of the law.

 

i think that people who look in the mirror  and see a man when they are a woman most likely have a genetic defect that makes them that way. im not sure that calling it a genetic defect it the right word, but you get the idea. i mean you cant just say ‘that guy wants to be a woman, he is normal’. because lets face it, its not. nor will it ever be. im not saying its wrong but i dont think it will ever be normal. there has to be something different in the genetic makeup of people who are like this.

You might not be entirely off, but your “wording” is probably more offensive, for lack of a better term.  Doesn’t offend me, but it might ruffle some feathers.  It could be considered apart of Body Dysmorphic Disorder, but if they want to go through with all of that, good for them.  

Pretty much this. It very well might be a mental disability that hasn’t been identified yet. No one is completely sure of what’s happening because it raises a LOT of questions that make a LOT of people uncomfortable, so any progress is being made in babysteps. We do know that someone “becoming” (again…complicated fucking shit) a different gender tends to help more than the gender identity issues getting treated with anti-psychotics. So, if they’re willing to spend the crazy amount of money to get the surgeries, go through the painful ass recovery, deal with the societal backlash, and endure all that is involved, just to be that much happier, I’m all for it and am more than willing to call them whatever gender they want until we can figure out exactly what’s going on there. 

Genetically modified food isn’t causing any problems with anyone’s genes. That’s really all I can say on that one. 

stretchSquiggles said
i feel this is a good time to get something off my chest here…
 

and i have noticed that when i encounter people of differences i subconsciously think in an intolerant mindset. this is a problem i have been battling with for years now, i know it’s not right, but i literally cannot seem to put a stop to those first thoughts being intolerant and offensive. 

 
PS: i know that don’t have anything to do with our convos but i just felt like i needed to get it out there.

I would say it’s a significant point. Being aware that you’re one thing when you want to be another thing kind of blends right into the conversation doesn’t it? I grew up in a hillbilly ass town and would do the “I don’t mind faggots as long as I don’t see em” shit until I met a gay dude who was cool as shit. Eventually, I stopped seeing him as gay friend and just started seeing him as a friend. Changing who you are, in regards to tolerance, takes a long ass time, man. If you’re anything like everyone else, you’re definitely on your way. 

CellE2057 said

MetalHorrorGuitarWhat said

Novocaine, The Elusive said
now i know this is going to put me in the shit but fuck it. im gunna say it anyways.

I believe that it is highly probable that transgender people are in a sense mentally ill. now im not saying that they need to be locked up and force fed crazy ass material to make them ‘normal’.

they are not hurting anyone and once they come to a mature age (18 or 21 depending where they are) they re legally entitled to do as they please within the confines of the law.

 

i think that people who look in the mirror  and see a man when they are a woman most likely have a genetic defect that makes them that way. im not sure that calling it a genetic defect it the right word, but you get the idea. i mean you cant just say ‘that guy wants to be a woman, he is normal’. because lets face it, its not. nor will it ever be. im not saying its wrong but i dont think it will ever be normal. there has to be something different in the genetic makeup of people who are like this.

You might not be entirely off, but your “wording” is probably more offensive, for lack of a better term.  Doesn’t offend me, but it might ruffle some feathers.  It could be considered apart of Body Dysmorphic Disorder, but if they want to go through with all of that, good for them.  

Pretty much this. It very well might be a mental disability that hasn’t been identified yet. No one is completely sure of what’s happening because it raises a LOT of questions that make a LOT of people uncomfortable, so any progress is being made in babysteps. We do know that someone “becoming” (again…complicated fucking shit) a different gender tends to help more than the gender identity issues getting treated with anti-psychotics. So, if they’re willing to spend the crazy amount of money to get the surgeries, go through the painful ass recovery, deal with the societal backlash, and endure all that is involved, just to be that much happier, I’m all for it and am more than willing to call them whatever gender they want until we can figure out exactly what’s going on there. 

Genetically modified food isn’t causing any problems with anyone’s genes. That’s really all I can say on that one. 

 BPA =/= GMO.  Not sure why you brought up GMO, so unless I missed someone else say it and you brought up in your reply to me, my apologies, but where’d you make that connection? And do you even have the slightest scientific knowledge to state for a fact, as your last sentence is worded, that it has absolutely NO effect on genetics and DNA?  Because if so, that is nothing more than hypothetical.  Jussayin’.

scruffy said
oh, you are schooled in the intricacies of science…?  

No, but I doubt he is schooled in the complexities of DNA strands and genetics.

scruffy said
i am.  show your chops.  

Sure thing, scruffilitis.

OCJ_Brendan said

MetalHorrorGuitarWhat said

scruffy said
i am.  show your chops.  

Sure thing, scruffilitis.

Powder is off cramming wikipedia into his nugget right now in a vain attempt to look smart..well smarter anyway (Insert lipstick on a pig joke….HERE)

Must be high again.  What else is new.