JuggaloJ said
I mean I’m not offended. I was simply clarifying I’m not homophobic or hateful towards anyone for their sexual orientation. I just grew up from a young age using words like fag and retard on a regular basis. I think I said in a previous post 10 years, but actually more like 15-20 now that I stop think and count. Everyone I hang with talks like that pretty much. Its a cultural thing, if people can’t understand it, that sucks. Like I tried to point out and educate you, there’s countless words and phrases used in America every day that have their roots in racisim and deragitory hate speach. But the beauty of it is, we’ve forgotten all about the negative uses of those words/phrases and stripped them of that power. How is that not a good thing? As you continue to hold on the the word as offensive you allow it to have that power over people and allow the actual hateful people to use it as a tool. You can try to counter argue against that. But I can promise I’m done here. Arguing on the interwebs is petty and it’s obvious you’re very sensitive and won’t admit I have a very strong point.   

But you didn’t have a strong point. Not at all. I say faggot for the same reasons. I’m not going to try and justify it. It’s a bad habit and I try not to say it. Simply because I don’t want gay people to feel unwelcome and how the hell are they supposed to know? If I start saying ‘fuck juggalos let’s kill them all’ as a greeting I bet you’d be upset. Then I’d be like, “You’re choosing to get upset, by giving that phrase meaning you are giving power to the people who actually hate juggalos”. Then you’d know how naive you sound.

JuggaloJ said
I must be making an excellent point, considering neither you nor Noah have had a response to me now THREE times bringing up the beauty of racist/derogatory words and hatespeach being stripped of their meaning over time by speaking the word/phrases until it loses its potency. Has been done over and over again in history. You can’t argue that.

One could argue that you’re ignoring their points as well. 

Fuck it though, I think both sides make valid points so I’ll jump in. 

As I said, I agree with your point that words change meaning overtime completely. This topic removed; the subject of language evolving really is fascinating but I digress. You’re skipping over how that happens though. They change meaning by slowly becoming less and less pertinent over time or, in this instance and a handful of others, when the peoples that the word is associated with in a negative way, take the word and insert it into their culture. There are plenty of outspoken LGBTQ+ (Noah, if you happen to read this, reply and tell me the current initialism please and thank you. There seems to be several variants of it at this point and I dunno which one to use. For reals, I wanna get it right.) groups/people that are trying to take the word “faggot” and words of the like and turn them into a positive. It has not been well received. That group of people aren’t collectively ready to embrace the term by their own. Basically, the collective LGBTQ+ (NOAH?!) community hasn’t even reached the “it’s our word” phase yet. Maybe you don’t know that or something. 

With that in mind, what makes you think that you’re in the clear to use it? Not saying you shouldn’t use it. Shit, say whatever the fuck you want but to try and justify it as if you’re doing your part to move past the word when outspoken advocates for LGBTQ+ rights have tried and failed, seems like you just wanna use the word regardless so you’re trying to justify that. 

JuggaloJ said
I mean I’m not offended.

Good. I don’t want you to be offended. I want you to recognize that your use of homophobic words is harmful to people that you claim not to hate.

I was simply clarifying I’m not homophobic or hateful towards anyone for their sexual orientation.

A person who ties homosexuality to everything he hates is inherently homophobic

I just grew up from a young age using words like fag and retard on a regular basis. I think I said in a previous post 10 years, but actually more like 15-20 now that I stop think and count. Everyone I hang with talks like that pretty much. Its a cultural thing, if people can’t understand it, that sucks.

“We grew up saying something homophobic. It’s cultural.”

Okay and?

Like I tried to point out and educate you, there’s countless words and phrases used in America every day that have their roots in racisim and deragitory hate speach. But the beauty of it is, we’ve forgotten all about the negative uses of those words/phrases and stripped them of that power.

Okay so if someone came around calling people the n slur it’s no big deal?

Errr. Wrong. 

How is that not a good thing? As you continue to hold on the the word as offensive you allow it to have that power over people and allow the actual hateful people to use it as a tool.

I’m not offended by it. I just think it makes you and everybody here look like a homophobe so i don’t agree with it.

You can try to counter argue against that. But I can promise I’m done here. Arguing on the interwebs is petty and it’s obvious you’re very sensitive and won’t admit I have a very strong point.   

Your point is flawed. You’re arguing against a point no one made.

All i said was i disagree with the use. 

JuggaloJ said
I must be making an excellent point, considering neither you nor Noah have had a response to me now THREE times bringing up the beauty of racist/derogatory words and hatespeach being stripped of their meaning over time by speaking the word/phrases until it loses its potency. Has been done over and over again in history. You can’t argue that.

I actually can argue that. It’s fundamentally not true. Racist words carry with them their racist history. Like the word gypped is a hold over against the Romani people (gypsy is a derogatory term for these people) still links theft with a community that wad literally murdered for fear of them stealing children.

Never said I wasn’t an insensitive asshole. I am. However I’m simply pointing out I am NOT someone who discriminates or spews hate towards individuals for their sexual orientation. Shit is their personal business and effects me absolutely zero  

And yet you want us to know that you associate their sexuality with literally anything you dislike.

You know how you take the potency out of something? You make it positive. You associate it with things that are good. 

The word queer is a fantastic example. The queer community have been using it now for some time to address themselves. It used to be used as a derogatory term for gay men but it was stripped of its potency by people associating it with celebrating uniqueness and diversity. But first it stopped being used by homophobic assholes because everyone it was used by “not homophobic” people to be derogatory, someone told them to sit down and shut up.

CellE2057 said

JuggaloJ said
I must be making an excellent point, considering neither you nor Noah have had a response to me now THREE times bringing up the beauty of racist/derogatory words and hatespeach being stripped of their meaning over time by speaking the word/phrases until it loses its potency. Has been done over and over again in history. You can’t argue that.

One could argue that you’re ignoring their points as well. 

Fuck it though, I think both sides make valid points so I’ll jump in. 

As I said, I agree with your point that words change meaning overtime completely. This topic removed; the subject of language evolving really is fascinating but I digress. You’re skipping over how that happens though. They change meaning by slowly becoming less and less pertinent over time or, in this instance and a handful of others, when the peoples that the word is associated with in a negative way, take the word and insert it into their culture. There are plenty of outspoken LGBTQ+ (Noah, if you happen to read this, reply and tell me the current initialism please and thank you. There seems to be several variants of it at this point and I dunno which one to use. For reals, I wanna get it right.)

Lgbtqqia++ is the longest/ most inclusive version I’ve seen. Lgbt the shortest. Any variant in between seems to be acceptable as long as the intention is to be inclusive. Moagi (marginalized orientations and gender identities) was my favorite but it never caught on.

groups/people that are trying to take the word “faggot” and words of the like and turn them into a positive. It has not been well received. That group of people aren’t collectively ready to embrace the term by their own. Basically, the collective LGBTQ+ (NOAH?!) community

You could also say queer community

hasn’t even reached the “it’s our word” phase yet. Maybe you don’t know that or something. 

With that in mind, what makes you think that you’re in the clear to use it? Not saying you shouldn’t use it. Shit, say whatever the fuck you want but to try and justify it as if you’re doing your part to move past the word when outspoken advocates for LGBTQ+ rights have tried and failed, seems like you just wanna use the word regardless so you’re trying to justify that.   

^^^there it is.

JuggaloJ said
They tried and “failed” because you can’t expect it to happen overnight. It takes a long ass time, so in that respect, yes I am actually doing my part, never thought of it that way in all honesty, thanks for enlightening me.

You’re really not tho.

Why don’t people like Noah just try not saying the word anymore and see if that works. Hmm chances of word not exhisting a few generations from now? About zero. 

I literally don’t say it. And when people do say it, if I agree with their point but not their homophobia I specify that. If I disagree with their point and their homophobia I specify that too. If they aren’t using it as a negative but are using it as a self identitier or are using it as a positive, I don’t usually say anything.

Chances of it being intigrated into everyday speech and not remembered by the average person as offensive to homosexuals, pretty good actually. If you’re an educated person you will realize this.  

Not really. You’re absolutely dead ass wrong. Look at the n slur. Nigga is used within the black community but if a non black person uses any form of the word it is still hurtful. The reason being that the hate behind the word is still prevalent.

Going back to gypped or gypsy, most English speakers don’t know who they were as people. The direct hate towards romani people is significantly diminished. Most people here probably couldn’t even identify where those people came from or where they would fall on the perceived racial line. 

But we still know that it’s not good to gyp someone.

And the people were almost entirely wiped out, so much so that there aren’t many active communities of Romani people. So much so that we think of gypsy not as a cultural and racial identity but as a vagabond and nomadic way of life.

You just proved my point. Everything you said isn’t true. I figured you were gonna use the “N” word. Which ironically I’m white and use every day. Never once in my life have I actually had a black person get mad at me for saying it (maybe turn a few heads but never actually confront me). Only racist pieces of shit throw the “er” on the end and that’s SO THEY CAN GET A NEGATIVE REACTION OUT OF PEOPLE. Nigga is STILL a variant of that exact word spoke en mass more often as NOT offensive then offensive. 

And I could not think of a more perfect example then Gyp. Me and you both know it was horribly offensive and the genocide those people faced, you didn’t educate me, I already knew that, yet most people have forgotten the racial association with the word, just the negative notion of the word exists to the average person. Thank you for proving my point. I’m done here. Actually for good this time. Nobody has a good educated respose to my argument. I was looking for one in all honesty. Must not exist…

I don’t tie the word faggot to homosexual acts (mostly), it’s just a diss word.

In the literal sense of the word homophobia, ya know, being “phobic” and grossed/wierded out by gay men and/or showing too close a affection to another male (I do understand female too but in this sense it’s mostly a guy thing) when you look at like that, I’m less homophobic then most men I know ironically…

In the end lets all just agree to disagree.

We gettin rather blocky around here and it has fuck all to do with J Webb lol. 

Reveal Spoiler

JuggaloJ said
You just proved my point. Everything you said isn’t true. I figured you were gonna use the “N” word. Which ironically I’m white and use every day. Never once in my life have I actually had a black person get mad at me for saying it (maybe turn a few heads but never actually confront me). Only racist pieces of shit throw the “er” on the end and that’s SO THEY CAN GET A NEGATIVE REACTION OUT OF PEOPLE. Nigga is STILL a variant of that exact word spoke en mass more often as NOT offensive then offensive. 

“Nigger” is another interesting one but to tie it in to the point; that wasn’t the only term used for slaves. A lot of terms used at time are long forgotten to history. Going back to the words evolve thing, with evolution brings the removal of some words that aren’t found to be useful anymore. The strongest words adapt and continue getting used by us, some words change their spelling to keep up, and some just die off. If you’re acknowledging that the word “faggot” can evolve, you also have to accept the fact that the word could also become an unword over time. It’s possible. 

And I could not think of a more perfect example then Gyp. Me and you both know it was horribly offensive and the genocide those people faced, you didn’t educate me, I already knew that, yet most people have forgotten the racial association with the word, just the negative notion of the word exists to the average person. Thank you for proving my point. I’m done here. Actually for good this time. Nobody has a good educated respose to my argument. I was looking for one in all honesty. Must not exist…

Well this is the second time you’ve said that you’re done and the second time you’ve dismissed any arguments. You’re only really making one argument though. Which is “words change meaning overtime”. You’ve now been told that that argument doesn’t necessarily hold up and been given a couple examples as proof. You’re not hearin em. You just keep hammering one argument in and dismissing any contrarian arguments. But if you done, you done. 

In the end lets all just agree to disagree.  

Yup yup. Ignoring any and all meanings that the word has ever had, the word “faggot” is a solid word. Meaning just the way it sounds. It starts on a hard consonant, has a hard consonant syllable break, and ends on a hard consonant. That’s a heavy fuckin word and I hope it changes and keeps getting used so good luck on your quest. It just seems like both sides are still in the 
“rally the troops” phase and you’re on the battleground ready to fight. These things take time. 

 

Noah Fence said

Lgbtqqia++ is the longest/ most inclusive version I’ve seen. Lgbt the shortest. Any variant in between seems to be acceptable as long as the intention is to be inclusive. Moagi (marginalized orientations and gender identities) was my favorite but it never caught on.

Much appreciated. I like LGBTQQIA++ and MOAGI for different reasons but yeah, having an actual acronym instead of an initialism would have been great but going the other way and making the initialism completely inclusive by making it long as fuck is pretty cool as well. 

You could also say queer community

Eh, I know the word “queer” is a positive now but I still can’t bring myself to use it. First time I heard someone use it in a positive way it still made me cringe. Still a gross word to me. 

ab_channel=TimMinchin

Let the retard battle of hypocritical complaints and condescending stereotypes commence!

“Being told my arguement doesn’t hold up and I’m just not trying hear it” ? No, I just haven’t seen proof that what I said wasn’t incorrect. In fact in all of your attempts to correct me only further proved my point. You’re never going to get rid of the word, so why should I stop saying it? To stop offending over sensitive people whom I don’t even mean it towards? Nah I’m good 

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