hubcapface said:

I seem to be one of the few people that actually like Miracles. I think it was an incredibly brave song to release in such cynical, spiritually deprived times and I don't believe ICP ever thought the attention, and hate, would snowball like it did. 

i like miracles as well.. i admit i did chuckle the 1st time i heard the magnets line & cringe at some of the 1st verse ("cats & dogs" "ran away").. the last verse is pretty fresh tho..

i bought the nuclear edition just so i could own the vid tbh.. 

*Starts prayer*

dear lord in heaven Sir Issac Newton.....

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllll

Lucem Ferre said:

hubcapface said:

I seem to be one of the few people that actually like Miracles. I think it was an incredibly brave song to release in such cynical, spiritually deprived times and I don't believe ICP ever thought the attention, and hate, would snowball like it did.

 

When you say spiritually deprived are you saying that the world is becoming too secular or are you saying that we are losing our morals?

Because I personally think that becoming secular is something that humanity finally needs to do and I also have to point out that we have always been immoral and there has always been crazy evil shit happening just as much back then as there is today, probably less actually. New technology now days just gives us the ability to see all this crazy evil shit that we just couldn't see before.

 

I think that if you don't put your faith in science it is ignorant, but what I think what you are trying to say is that people take these theories as complete fact too often. Religion was science, a now proven to be wrong science, but still science. We used to think that the earth was the center of the universe, that was science, but now do to advancements in technology and further scientific investigation we realized that we are wrong. Science is ever changing and always trying to correct it's self when it is proven wrong. It's always evolving. Anything other than science is just random ideas being thrown out with nothing to back it up, anything other than science is completely illogical so that's why I think people should put their faith in science, just don't take every theory as fact and question everything.

 

What I wonder is why people can't enjoy miracles or deny that miracles exist just because there is a scientific explanation. We have theories on how the earth got here, does that make the earth any less miraculous? I mean, some of these scientific explanations make things seem even more miraculous. When you think about how you were the lucky sperm out of thousands of sperm to reach your mother's egg, don't you not think that it's miraculous?

 

Oh and putting faith in your own experience is science. Your observations of the world, your investigations and studying what goes on around you is science. You put faith in science.

No, when I say spiritually deprived I mean that over in the UK where I live, the vast majority of young British people have no spiritual aspect to their lives whatsoever. Disgust at the corruption and hypocrisy of the church has led to an adverse reaction to anything spiritually inclined. They instead put their faith in unearned celebrity, government vetoed newspapers and broadcasts and saccharine shallow pop stars. Firstly the church and then this media saturated age have prevented the mental quietude and self reflection that lead to true individuality and spirituality. People are taught from a very young age to look outside themselves for salvation, they are taught to mistrust; that the world is full of rapists and murderers. 

Religion hasn't been 'proven wrong' by science as you suggested. My spiritual experiences are far more important and meaningful in shaping my experience than any science I might have learned…and as both a scientist [ I work as a toxicologist] and a person with a spiritually centred life I am looking at this from a balanced place. In fact, religion might be the wrong word here; religion is a man made construct..it is anthropocentric and, I believe, a means to strip an individual of their one source of spiritual awakening from within. Religion is a prison for seekers of wisdom and has long divided life that is whole. There are as many paths to God as there are people on Earth…it is just the ego that places one above the other.

hubcapface said:

No, when I say spiritually deprived I mean that over in the UK where I live, the vast majority of young British people have no spiritual aspect to their lives whatsoever. Disgust at the corruption and hypocrisy of the church has led to an adverse reaction to anything spiritually inclined. They instead put their faith in unearned celebrity, government vetoed newspapers and broadcasts and saccharine shallow pop stars. Firstly the church and then this media saturated age have prevented the mental quietude and self reflection that lead to true individuality and spirituality. People are taught from a very young age to look outside themselves for salvation, they are taught to mistrust; that the world is full of rapists and murderers. 

 

Religion hasn't been 'proven wrong' by science as you suggested. My spiritual experiences are far more important and meaningful in shaping my experience than any science I might have learned…and as both a scientist [ I work as a toxicologist] and a person with a spiritually centred life I am looking at this from a balanced place. In fact, religion might be the wrong word here; religion is a man made construct..it is anthropocentric and, I believe, a means to strip an individual of their one source of spiritual awakening from within. Religion is a prison for seekers of wisdom and has long divided life that is whole. There are as many paths to God as there are people on Earth…it is just the ego that places one above the other.

I guess I made the mistake of associating spiritualism with religion, because spiritualism doesn't need to be religious in any way. When somebody mentions the spirit they usually think of some kind of supernatural ghosty thing when in reality the spirit is the purest version of who you are, a non tangible thing. I do think people who are atheist tend to forget about their spirituality and tend to live their life only in the physical world that we can see rather than exploring the inner depths of who they are. I think this as a result ends up with people never truly being happy because they are too busy chasing after things that don't really make them happy but what society tells them will make you happy. At the same time spiritualism is a science. Everything that involves knowledge, exploration and discovery is science.

Majority of the religions have been proven to be wrong by science. The only ones I can think of are religions such as Buddhism and Thelema, even spiritual Satanism hasn't been proven wrong. Theism hasn't been proven wrong and can't be proven wrong but can't be proven right at the same time. The absents of evidence of a creators existence just makes the theory non valid, though it doesn't rule it out. I place humanity above God even if a God exists because we have the power to build things and fix things and try to make things as perfect as possible. We have the power to become gods, if people would let go of their own selfishness then we could become the most divine force out there.

Lucem Ferre said:

hubcapface said:

 

I guess I made the mistake of associating spiritualism with religion, because spiritualism doesn't need to be religious in any way. When somebody mentions the spirit they usually think of some kind of supernatural ghosty thing when in reality the spirit is the purest version of who you are, a non tangible thing. I do think people who are atheist tend to forget about their spirituality and tend to live their life only in the physical world that we can see rather than exploring the inner depths of who they are. I think this as a result ends up with people never truly being happy because they are too busy chasing after things that don't really make them happy but what society tells them will make you happy. At the same time spiritualism is a science. Everything that involves knowledge, exploration and discovery is science.

 

Exactly. I completely agree. But I don't think your understanding of science is the same one ICP are questioning in Miracles. They are questioning empirical science.

I also have to disagree that personal experience is the same thing as science itself. Science came about to seek the objective 'truth' of reality free from the personal bias or cultural conditioning that unavoidably colours and clouds our subjective experience of reality. A truly objective veiwpoint cannot be truly experienced by a human; we veiw the world through the 'lens' of our personality. Additionally, almost all scientific investigations or theories are verified or falsified through statistical analysis which is often counter intuitive and intentionally, a very different method of drawing a conclusion than direct, instinctive experience.

I know this may not have anything to do with this topic,Or this post,But this is how i feel personally about "GOD"

HOLY FUCK THERE IS A CHICK ON THE FORUM!!??? ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

yeah sorry haha i think tits are fine.. just nothing too explicit ya feel me?

write a book ! sum dumb-shit going down here ! w.t.f. !

wonka69 said:

sum dumb-shit going down here ! w.t.f. !

Now that you have commented that's actually true