King Lucem Ferre said

If you want to ignore Marilyn Manson, Korn, Slipknot, Mushroomhead, NIN, or the whole numetal movement as a whole that was in fashion then we can pretend that ICP were completely different and fighting the odds because they didn’t fit in.

Really though, it’s not completely true. If anything the real thing that held them back was that people didn’t take ICP seriously because they thought it was a ‘joke band’ like Lonely Island or Weird Al. ICP had to fight against that perception which still exists to this day. So while they were paving that road for Twiztid they were also creating a glass ceiling for them that they’re having to fight to break out of. I don’t think they had to sacrifice any more than Twiztid did. If anything Twiztid had to sacrifice more since they paid their dues as HOK and had too seemingly appeal to worse politics on Psy than ICP had to endure on the bigger labels especially since ICP kept walking way with millions of dollars from the labels that they spent years convince us screwed them over.  

All Valid points, but ICP was a hip hop group and the original question was comparing they’re actions against Twiztids.

The Hate for Manson, and his fans, was real though. I’d put each fanbase (ICP/M.M.) about equal in terms of the bullshit they had to deal with for liking them publicly. 

Karacalla said

All Valid points, but ICP was a hip hop group and the original question was comparing they’re actions against Twiztids.

The Hate for Manson, and his fans, was real though. I’d put each fanbase (ICP/M.M.) about equal in terms of the bullshit they had to deal with for liking them publicly.   

True, but I’ve found the same bullshit for publicly liking Kanye. Well minus the ‘straight edge’ kids that threatened to kill juggalos all the time.

King Lucem Ferre said

True, but I’ve found the same bullshit for publicly liking Kanye. Well minus the ‘straight edge’ kids that threatened to kill juggalos all the time.  

At this point in time, yea, liking Kanyeezy is not fashionable, but for 99% of his career he was considered a top tier artist and respected accordingly. Hell, even in infamy, hes still respected as an artist and gets support from most of his peers.

ICP…Manson, not so much. Both bands have been put through the ringer from the start, Sure its easier today to publicize you are a fan of each, but you’ll surely get scrutinized by someone for doing so. To a Kanye fan, this newfound hate they find themselves getting as of late is somewhat of a new concept, lol.

I get the correlation, but the consequences aren’t the same Lucem.

King Lucem Ferre said

True, but I’ve found the same bullshit for publicly liking Kanye. Well minus the ‘straight edge’ kids that threatened to kill juggalos all the time.  

since when?

usually if you dont suck kanye’s dick people act like you must be some racist who thinks all rap music is “nigger music”

Karacalla said

At this point in time, yea, liking Kanyeezy is not fashionable, but for 99% of his career he was considered a top tier artist and respected accordingly. Hell, even in infamy, hes still respected as an artist and gets support from most of his peers.

ICP…Manson, not so much. Both bands have been put through the ringer from the start, Sure its easier today to publicize you are a fan of each, but you’ll surely get scrutinized by someone for doing so. To a Kanye fan, this newfound hate they find themselves getting as of late is somewhat of a new concept, lol.

I get the correlation, but the consequences aren’t the same Lucem.  

No, I’ve always gotten shit for liking anything mainstream at all, especially Kanye. Depends on who you hang out with but there’s always going to be somebody that gives you shit for something you like and for me it was no different than the hate I got for liking ICP except for the fact that people just generally didn’t like juggalos as a whole because a few would start shit and act like a gang.

As for his professional career, Kanye actually worked his ass off to earn that. You have to remember that he used to be a big producer before he was a rapper and he used to get laughed at and dismissed the same as ICP. Especially since his whole idea on being a rapper was to rap about normal things rather than trying to appeal to the stereotypes of the time, such as working jobs you don’t like or using materialism to hide his insecurities. Jay Z only signed him so they can be the first ones to pick at his beats, then he proved everybody wrong with his first album debuting at #2. He was literally laughed out of radio stations for presenting them with Jesus Walks, made fun of for wearing pink polo shirts, etc.

86 said

Yeah I contradict myself often. It’s not by intention, it just… happens that way. Lol. What I was trying to say is Twiztid is sucking dick for mainstream attention much like ICP did. It’s not something you want to admit about a band you feel so devoted to, but you also gotta remember that they need to reach as high as they can go as artists. Not everything can be about cussing and murder, otherwise, you won’t grow. I love horrorcore probably more than anyone here, and I do appreciate horrorcore artists that never expand past that, but the probability of that artist going any further dwindles down to slim to none. But that’s okay, that just means they’re devoted to what they like, and refuse to change anything to appeal to the masses. I have respect for that.

I don’t think either have sucked mainstream dick, I just think they want to be mainstream and lie about it. I think both genuinely like the trends they’ve adopted and that makes a difference.

But just so I’m clear, that is not why I dislike Twiztid now. I dislike Twiztid because of the opening lyrics on Evilution, and then not going to the march. The lyrics at the beginning of Evilution shows that they, Twiztid, acknowledge that Juggalos, the core of their fanbase which they helped build, was experiencing discrimination, and they chose to not be a part of a march that was supposed to spread awareness about Juggalos not being a gang. Twiztid can say “It was about publicity for a band” all they like. Yeah, maybe it was another mainstream attention grab by ICP, but it was also spreading awareness about Juggalos not being a gang at the same time. Win-win. This is how Psychopathic Records and MNE stay in business: getting eyes on the product. Bringing NEW eyes to the product. Old school Juggalos such as ourselves aren’t the only Juggalos in the world. There are Juggalos out there who may not know they are Juggalos yet, and any little mainstream reference can direct them to the underground where they will…discover this little underworld of ours.

I’m gonna smoke a bowl now.  

They said they didn’t do the march because it won’t solve anything and they’re right, it didn’t. Plenty of people have already done what that march was allegedly intended to do. It didn’t change anything, I assure you. Most people know it’s not a gang. Mono’s point was that if people are actually being discriminated against it needs to be done on a case by case basis. Something that many of us have said. Frankly, with R.O.C’s point in his response, I think the march is kind of disrespectful towards actual movements for actual discrimination. (he didn’t say that, but he essentially said he won’t do it because he doesn’t even do it for BLM) I’m not completely sure if those points are the real reason that they pulled out or not. Many MNE artists declined after Twiztid agreed and they didn’t reverse that decision until after J called them snakes for signing YW, if I remember right. They do have a point regardless. That march was a huge pompous display of self indulgent bullshit that ICP exploited for publicity. Initially they were saying that it was done for the assessment, then it was to be a ‘middle finger’ to the FBI now it’s them trying to tell the world that juggalos aren’t a gang. Yeah, sure.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that song came out before Twiztid said the ‘list’ is bullshit, right? Perhaps they found out after the album and that’s when they started saying it. Perhaps they were planning to take on each case juggalos were submitting as discrimination and found out it was all bullshit through that. Might be a bit too generous to assume that though. They’re right about it being bullshit, wrong about juggalos not being considered a gang. I live in Salt Lake, juggalos have been on that gang list for a while before the assessment. Actually, the assessment mostly talks about Salt Lake incidents. I can tell you that the discrimination that ICP claims happens doesn’t exist in Salt Lake. I worked at a Jr. high right before the assessment happened. The principal was very well aware of juggalos and them being considered a gang. She gave me shit about it but I was given a chance to prove her wrong. For it to make any difference you have to fuck up first and typically it’s the fuck up in it’s self that causes the treatment that they call ‘discrimination’. As for being harassed by cops, I think JuggaloJ has a point when he says cops tend to fuck with everybody. It’s bullshit, dude. ICP manipulated the assessment to get attention. The didn’t give any fucks or say anything about juggalos being considered a gang for the years, I think almost a whole decade, prior to the assessment. They knew about it too, DJ Clay had commented on it back in 2010. So you’re mad at Twiztid over nothing.

Makaveli said
I only read the first post and a couple replies so I dunno if someone already covered this. My opinion is you’re just taking everything they say way too seriously. Yes they’ve tried to get more fans and some mainstream recognition many times over their careers, it’s a business..who wouldn’t? They also both have families and multiple kids to support. They’ve worked their ass off for a majority of their lives, why should they turn down a once in a lifetime chance like woodstock just cuz they said ‘fuck big festivals’ on a song? Like come on…woodstock didn’t even make them change anything so even if you’re against the idea, it’s not like they ‘sold out’ or changed anything to get on the show..

As far as making edited versions of songs goes, who the hell cares? NWA and everyone else has been doing that forever. Don’t listen to the edited versions if you don’t like em, it’s just a way to get their product out to more people…as literally any business would want to do. 

i don’t know if you’re a twiztid fan or not but they’re doing a hell of a lot more lately to try to go ‘mainstream’ in my opinion, so this is kinda odd timing to bash ICP on this when most of the examples you used are from the 90s or early 2000s lol.   

He’s just saying that it’s hypocritical for juggalos to bash Twiztid and not ICP for it.