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So if Juggalos will never forgive or support Twiztid again...
February 3, 2018
4:07 am
spookiTHEfunguy
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King Lucem Ferre said
I feel like most of yall don't listen to what Vinyl says, personally. My two cents. Some of yall have been shit talking him for no reason because he cares about stupid ass youtubers.  

No....its because they are making assumptions and putting words in peoples mouth.

February 3, 2018
10:25 am
bayAreaShaman
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King Lucem Ferre said
I feel like most of yall don't listen to what Vinyl says, personally. My two cents. Some of yall have been shit talking him for no reason because he cares about stupid ass youtubers.  

Duh hoe nigga

YOU KNOW THEY AINT NO SUCH THING AS LEFTOVER CRACK!!!- Leftover Crack

February 3, 2018
9:41 pm
spookiTHEfunguy
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Whoop Whoop, SPOOKYtheFUNGI :

Carnivalkilla44
February 3, 2018
10:17 pm
Carnivalkilla44
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That is still one of the best concert intros I've seen from the clowns.

Whoop Whoop, Carnivalkilla44 :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI
February 3, 2018
10:31 pm
Noah Fence
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King Lucem Ferre said
I feel like most of yall don't listen to what Vinyl says, personally. My two cents. Some of yall have been shit talking him for no reason because he cares about stupid ass youtubers.  

it's not so much that he cares what youtubers say, it's that he comes here and he posts what they say as if we should care what they say, without any of his own input or thoughts, nothing of value from him. It's like if I just copy pasted all of my assigned readers at school, no one would care and it would become annoying. 

Not that I care about annoying some of the people here but you get what I'm saying. You can't have a conversation with someone who only copy pastes from other sources. It's worse than arguing with a brick wall. It's like trying to shout at a billboard and hoping the next billboard is a progression in discussion from the last, when it can't be. 

Whoop Whoop, Noah Fence :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

February 3, 2018
10:56 pm
vinyllover
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he comes here and he posts what they say as if we should care what they say, without any of his own input or thoughts,

[...]

You can't have a conversation with someone who only copy pastes from other sources.

I don't have any of my own thoughts or input? All those words I wrote at the top of page one are ripped off from somewhere? Okay. ya-right

February 3, 2018
11:57 pm
Noah Fence
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vinyllover said

he comes here and he posts what they say as if we should care what they say, without any of his own input or thoughts,

[...]

You can't have a conversation with someone who only copy pastes from other sources.

I don't have any of my own thoughts or input? All those words I wrote at the top of page one are ripped off from somewhere? Okay. ya-right  

sorry, my bad, i meant  mostly doesn't add his own input or thoughts, just links to and summaries of youtube bullshit. 

Whoop Whoop, Noah Fence :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 17, 2018
11:33 pm
vinyllover
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So it has been one year since the march and almost 8 months since I first made this topic.

Can anyone disprove anything I have said? Chuck Reeves has said? Twiztid has said? The FUCKING JUDGES have said? Or are we going to continue thinking Twiztid betrayed Juggalos because CPN said so, or because Joe Bruce said so, and we don't know how to read or understand legal documents?

The time for the division between ICP Juggalos and Twiztid Juggalos must come to an end. And it starts with a little bit of hard work and studying to figure out who the fake news is in the juggalo youtube community that doesn't do their fucking research and is misleading people down a primrose path.

September 18, 2018
12:15 am
scruffy
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vinyllover said     
Can anyone disprove anything I have said?      

this doesnt strike you as incredibly stilted?  who communicates like this?  

know why people called you a shill?  its cuz youre a shill.  

The time for the division between ICP Juggalos and Twiztid Juggalos must come to an end.     

oh yeah?  cool.  

so, when you gonna get with it?  

And it starts with    

not bein divisive.  

for example, stating that there are two separate classes of juggalos like you know.  

or, railing on and on about meaningless little drama points to make them seem even slightly significant.  

or, daring everybody to argue with you like a debate club teen, then gettin all itchy about it when somebody argues.  

there are more examples of divisiveness that must come to an end.  i can continue.  

  

seriously, the person who wrote that post gives not a fuck about ending divisiveness.  the whole angle is dramamongering.  

your shit is weak.  i know, cuz i read it, and understood it.  its weak.  

Whoop Whoop, scruffy :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

September 18, 2018
12:41 am
Noah Fence
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vinyllover said
So it has been one year since the march and almost 8 months since I first made this topic.
Can anyone disprove anything I have said? Chuck Reeves has said? Twiztid has said? The FUCKING JUDGES have said?

We can't disprove an opinion. Twiztid expressed an opinion. 

I don't know what you and chuck reeves have said cuz neither of you weigh enough in my mind to hold any real clout. 

The judges said that icp didn't have the right to take the claim to court, not that their claim was wrong. 

Or are we going to continue thinking Twiztid betrayed Juggalos because CPN said so, or because Joe Bruce said so, and we don't know how to read or understand legal documents?

People can feel betrayed over perceptions of disloyalty even when other people don't agree with that perception.

There are zero legal documents that say twiztid didn't betray juggalos just as the are zero documents that say they did. 

The time for the division between ICP Juggalos and Twiztid Juggalos must come to an end. And it starts with a little bit of hard work and studying to figure out who the fake news is in the juggalo youtube community that doesn't do their fucking research and is misleading people down a primrose path.  

There's no such thing as icp juggalos and twiztid juggalos. There's just juggalos.

Fake news is a propaganda tool. Those who trot it out in arguments like this are often trying to hide the truth, not reveal it. CPN and the other guy whose name I'm blanking on, are garbage assholes with opinions. Sometimes informed on bad or incomplete information. Anybody who thinks these chodes are journalists needs a stern talking too.

As for my part. I don't care that twiztid didn't march. I think, people who were there, will always remember who was absent. I think that twiztid did themselves a disservice not being there. Tech too. And everybody else who didn't show up. The publicity alone. Photos and shit. Coulda shoulda woulda tho, i guess. 

The only time I felt like twiztid were being chumps was them taking the word juggalo out of songs on warped tour. I'm over it tho. 

Whoop Whoop, Noah Fence :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 18, 2018
12:49 am
vinyllover
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We can’t disprove an opinion. Twiztid expressed an opinion.

Let's try some baby steps. Here are a few statements I made back on page one.

The National Gang Intelligence Center was formed BY THE FBI in 2005 AT THE DIRECTION of Congress to help them deal not only with organized known gangs, but also hybrid gangs.

The 2011 report IS CLEAR that Juggalos have been classified as a gang in ONLY FOUR STATES. Arizona. California. Utah. Pennsylvania.

These NGIC reports are issued every two years.

There were no Juggalos in the 2013 or 2015 report as the judges pointed out.

The 2011 report is not saying anything like “Juggalos are a nationwide gang.

The 2011 report is also not a legal final directive for every state in the country on how to treat Juggalos if you see them or have to deal with them in places like divorce court.

Nowhere in the 2011 NGIC report is there anything saying like, “Keep kids away from their Juggalo parents during a divorce.”


True or false?

September 18, 2018
1:06 am
vinyllover
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How about this?
https://faygoluvers.net/v5/2018/07/fbi-releases-documents-about-juggalo-gang-investigation/

 

Can we stop being stupid about this ‘gang list’ please? Gang list is not even used by the FBI or any state or local police department. It is used by Juggalos to describe something that Twiztid admits exists but is not what people think it is.

There is no federal gang list saying every Juggalo in 50 states is a suspect gang member that needs to be fired, thrown in jail and have their kids taken away from them

The FBI 2011 document does NOT state the following.
1. Every Juggalo in all 50 states is an actual or potential gang member.
2. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should be arrested and throw in jail for gang affiliation.
3. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should be fired from their jobs.
4. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should lose custody of their children, especially if during divorce court.

 

True or false?

 

The ACLU lawyer tried to argue that the FBI should have have known cops would basically step out of line and break the law and harass law abiding juggalos by interfering with their constitutional rights, or even try to pin a false arrest on them. Both times, the judges said no, you have to blame the local and state police for fucking up and doing something that was NOT RECOMMENDED to do to Juggalos in the 2011 report. File a section 1983 lawsuit against corrupt harassment and get restitution.

 

Did the judges say that in the court audio, true or false?

September 18, 2018
1:27 am
Noah Fence
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vinyllover said

We can’t disprove an opinion. Twiztid expressed an opinion.

Let's try some baby steps. Here are a few statements I made back on page one.

The National Gang Intelligence Center was formed BY THE FBI in 2005 AT THE DIRECTION of Congress to help them deal not only with organized known gangs, but also hybrid gangs.

The 2011 report IS CLEAR that Juggalos have been classified as a gang in ONLY FOUR STATES. Arizona. California. Utah. Pennsylvania.

Mostly accurate,  sure. It didn't use the word only. It described a history of legal involvement in those states. 

These NGIC reports are issued every two years.

There were no Juggalos in the 2013 or 2015 report as the judges pointed out.

From my understanding, no one is claiming that we are included in those reports. The juggalawyer dude has said the other reports don't list known gangs in a way comparable to the 2011 report. This has been repeated by most sources.

The 2011 report is not saying anything like “Juggalos are a nationwide gang.

It does create a precedent for other people to say that, though. And to collect federal funds for law enforcement agencies to help fight the gang. The fbi are a federal law enforcement agency. Because they chose to describe us in a very specific way and in a very specific report, other agencies can point to their report as justification. 

The 2011 report is also not a legal final directive for every state in the country on how to treat Juggalos if you see them or have to deal with them in places like divorce court.

Right, because that isn't how the law works. The fbi doesn't have the authority to instruct local or state agencies on how to behave. 

Nowhere in the 2011 NGIC report is there anything saying like, “Keep kids away from their Juggalo parents during a divorce.”

Nobody is claiming it does. 

True or false?

That's your problem. You think this is about facts or lies. It isn't. It's about perceptions. 

Law is an ARGUMENT that is primarily based on PRECEDENT. A person getting divorced can and will use legal arguments to gain certain leverages and permissions. 

One such argument, that a person is in a gang, carries significant weight. How do you prove that someone is in a gang?

  • Show tattoos of allegiance. 
  • A history of crime. 
  • Social media postings.
  • Graffiti
  • Testimony of other gang members
  • Use of an alias 

Why do these things demonstrate gang activity? Because of precedents. 

Now imagine you're a judge. You have no idea what a juggalo is. Never heard of them. 

A lawyer in a divorce case is seeking sole custody for their client. The other party is, they believe, a gang member. 

Well let's see your evidence, you say. 

They come back with 

  • Tattoos of allegiance
  • A history of criminal activity, the guy was busted for pot in his teens, then again was arrested for assault
  • And then they bring out the social media postings of the guy with graffiti in the background, people calling him by an alias, pictures of him with weapons, pictures of him with other people wearing identifying clothing, using hand signals, and a YouTube video where he is singing gang related by abk.

The lawyer on the other side says these aren't gang activities.

So the first layer pops up wth a report that describes a group of people, who use the same identifying clothing, hand signals, graffiti, and aliases, etc, in association with small scale crimes such as narcotic distribution and assault. It names this group and states that they are active in several states. Including one near you. It is issued by a federal law enforcement agency. 

Is it a legal slam dunk? No. A lawyer might be able to argue around it. But it's certainly a tough corner to climb out of. 

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 18, 2018
1:42 am
Noah Fence
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vinyllover said
How about this?
https://faygoluvers.net/v5/2018/07/fbi-releases-documents-about-juggalo-gang-investigation/

Can we stop being stupid about this ‘gang list’ please? Gang list is not even used by the FBI or any state or local police department. It is used by Juggalos to describe something that Twiztid admits exists but is not what people think it is.

It is, in fact, a list of known gangs, arguing otherwise is semantics. 

There is no federal gang list saying every Juggalo in 50 states is a suspect gang member that needs to be fired, thrown in jail and have their kids taken away from them

The FBI 2011 document does NOT state the following.
1. Every Juggalo in all 50 states is an actual or potential gang member.
2. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should be arrested and throw in jail for gang affiliation.
3. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should be fired from their jobs.
4. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should lose custody of their children, especially if during divorce court.

 

True or false?

Nobody is claiming it says this. No one. You're missing the point. 

The ACLU lawyer tried to argue that the FBI should have have known cops would basically step out of line and break the law and harass law abiding juggalos by interfering with their constitutional rights, or even try to pin a false arrest on them. Both times, the judges said no, you have to blame the local and state police for fucking up and doing something that was NOT RECOMMENDED to do to Juggalos in the 2011 report. File a section 1983 lawsuit against corrupt harassment and get restitution.

 

Did the judges say that in the court audio, true or false?  

Again,  you're missing the point. The judge said ICP didn't have the legal standing to bring the case to the fbi. They didn't say the fbi was innocent, they said it was the wrong argument. 

I've said multiple times that I thought icp were making the wrong argument. They needed the precedence to show causality. I believe had they gone after individual agencies and entities, those entities would have used the report in their defense. Then, and only then, would icp have had grounds to go after the fbi. If those other entities were successful.

People make decisions based on perception. Because the initial report failed to mention that only a small number of juggalos are involved in criminal activities, it's reasonable to assume that people used the information provided in the report to justify their decisions. ICP and the ACLU failed by putting the cart before the horse. 

Whoop Whoop, Noah Fence :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 18, 2018
2:35 am
vinyllover
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The 2011 report is not saying anything like “Juggalos are a nationwide gang.

It does create a precedent for other people to say that, though.

If we're talking about how this report may be abused or misinterpreted by certain cops in certain places to treat any Juggalo they see as a suspected gang member and possibly VIOLATE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, that is the fault of the cops and NOT THE FBI.  The juggalo lawyer tried to argue that the FBI should have known police would misunderstand or misuse the list to abuse Juggalos, but the judge said that's not the responsibility of the FBI to make sure cops behave. That's the job of the cops, and if they misbehave FILE A SECTION 1983 LAWSUIT.

The fbi are a federal law enforcement agency. Because they chose to describe us in a very specific way and in a very specific report, other agencies can point to their report as justification. 

And that specific way was to say that FOUR STATES by 2011 classified Juggalos as a gang and that 21 states reported problems with semi disorganized, independent, "hybrid gangs." In the report, there are national gangs, hybrid gangs and neighborhood gangs. Juggalos are hybrid. Crips and MS-13 are national and are on that list every year. Juggalos need to stop playing victim pretending they were put on the same plane as more dangerous groups that regularly engage in things like murder and human trafficking. Christ, did CPN or any other Juggalo actually read that report? Or do they just not understand it?

 

The 2011 report is also not a legal final directive for every state in the country on how to treat Juggalos if you see them or have to deal with them in places like divorce court.

Right, because that isn’t how the law works. The fbi doesn’t have the authority to instruct local or state agencies on how to behave. 

Glad your siding with the judges that the FBI is not responsible for how stupid cops choose to behave. That means the Juggalo lawyer was wrong and CPN is a paranoid delusional freak who apparently doesn't understand the documents he reads.

Nowhere in the 2011 NGIC report is there anything saying like, “Keep kids away from their Juggalo parents during a divorce.”

Nobody is claiming it does. 

CPN and others are acting like it is. They say, "I got my kids taken from me because I'm a juggalo and the FBI is to blame for this." Mono asks for legal documentation and paperwork in an October 2017 brunch and bake and Jamie asks if Juggalos even know her name. CPN replies with, "She was there. She said her name." But he avoided Mono's point. Because CPN is a dumbass. At least you're admitting Juggalos don't understand causality and the legal system and the separation of powers between agencies.

Gang list is not even used by the FBI or any state or local police department. It is used by Juggalos to describe something that Twiztid admits exists but is not what people think it is.

It is, in fact, a list of known gangs, arguing otherwise is semantics. 

There is no federal gang list saying every Juggalo in 50 states is a suspect gang member that needs to be fired, thrown in jail and have their kids taken away from them

The FBI 2011 document does NOT state the following.
1. Every Juggalo in all 50 states is an actual or potential gang member.
2. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should be arrested and throw in jail for gang affiliation.
3. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should be fired from their jobs.
4. Every Juggalo in all 50 states should lose custody of their children, especially if during divorce court.

 

True or false?

Nobody is claiming it says this. No one. You’re missing the point. 

Other Juggalos are acting like it is the case. CPN is one of them. Since you admit these are NOT in the FBI 2011 report, then calling this a "gang list" is a MISNOMER. Since it is NOT an indictment of EVERY JUGGALO, then there is no problem with the FBI.

The judge said ICP didn’t have the legal standing to bring the case to the fbi. They didn’t say the fbi was innocent, they said it was the wrong argument.

Very good. It was the wrong argument because as the judge said the 2011 report contained NO LEGAL DIRECTIVES telling cops how to treat any individual juggalo that they meet. The judge said the fight is with local cops who may need to be sued with a section 1983 lawsuit for possibly violating someone's constitutional rights. The juggalo lawyer was stupid, ICP was stupid and CPN was stupid and so was the mainstream media for not doing simple research.

 

Because the initial report failed to mention that only a small number of juggalos are involved in criminal activities

Complete and utter horseshit. Here is what it says near the bottom of the 2011 NGIC report at the "Endnotes."

e

Juggalos are traditionally fans of the musical group the Insane Clown Posse. Arizona, California, Pennsylvania, and Utah are the only US states that recognize Juggalos as a gang.

There you go. The majority of the time, Juggalos are just music fans. The tradition of Juggalos is to celebrate MUSIC and not CRIME. You're proving my point that many Juggalos aren't doing their research and are just going off of the stupid shit CPN says.

Further proof CPN is a fucking moron is that early in 2018, possibly January, he posted this link

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2013/mar/07/fbi-reveals-why-it-labeled-insane-clown-posse-gang/

In July, he posted this one.

https://vault.fbi.gov/insane-clown-posse/insane-clown-posse-part-01-of-01.pdf/view

IT'S THE SAME GODDAMN DOCUMENT. All it is, is an internal 2011 report from an FBI field office in SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH. Oh wow. One state that already declared Juggalos a gang in 2011 (as the FBI NGIC report said). Fucking newsflash, CPN. What is this supposed to prove? That the FBI said in their 2011 NGIC report that Juggalos were a gang in Utah? NOBODY DENIES THIS! NOT EVEN TWIZTID! YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT!!! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BRAG ABOUT!!!

September 18, 2018
2:44 am
vinyllover
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"They called us a gang. They called us a gang."

No they didn't. The NGIC report said Juggalos were a gang in four states as of 2011. It named the states. It then listed THREE TYPES of gangs. Neighborhood, hybrid and national. It then singled out WHICH ONE the Juggalos were. It looked at the 21 states that were dealing with these low level crime hybrid gangs that were somewhat independent and disorganized. It then left it up to local authorities to deal with Juggalos on a case by case basis.

What you are failing to understand is that SINCE YOU ADMIT that the NGIC 2011 report contained NO LEGAL DIRECTIVE to tell cops how to treat individual Juggalos when they meet them, this VERY SAME FACT could be used in a divorce case. The mother or father fighting for custody would say, "yes I have tattoos and clothes and etc. But I am also a Juggalo that DOES NOT engage in criminal activity and I DO NOT associate with Juggalos who do. The FBI report ADMITS that traditionally Juggalos are about MUSIC and not CRIME. So therefore I demand joint custody."

And if they lose custody, it's because they dealt drugs and COMMITTED ASSAULT as per your example. Not because of their tattoos. LOL. And if their lawyer failed to make the convincing argument that I just made in that example, then it means they're a shitty lawyer who ALSO didn't read the document carefully. Just like a lot of Juggalos apparently.

September 18, 2018
3:20 am
Noah Fence
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vinyllover said
"They called us a gang. They called us a gang."

No they didn't. The NGIC report said Juggalos were a gang in four states as of 2011. It named the states. It then listed THREE TYPES of gangs. Neighborhood, hybrid and national. It then singled out WHICH ONE the Juggalos were. It looked at the 21 states that were dealing with these low level crime hybrid gangs that were somewhat independent and disorganized. It then left it up to local authorities to deal with Juggalos on a case by case basis.

What you are failing to understand is that SINCE YOU ADMIT that the NGIC 2011 report contained NO LEGAL DIRECTIVE to tell cops how to treat individual Juggalos when they meet them, this VERY SAME FACT could be used in a divorce case. The mother or father fighting for custody would say, "yes I have tattoos and clothes and etc. But I am also a Juggalo that DOES NOT engage in criminal activity and I DO NOT associate with Juggalos who do. The FBI report ADMITS that traditionally Juggalos are about MUSIC and not CRIME. So therefore I demand joint custody."

And if they lose custody, it's because they dealt drugs and COMMITTED ASSAULT as per your example. Not because of their tattoos. LOL. And if their lawyer failed to make the convincing argument that I just made in that example, then it means they're a shitty lawyer who ALSO didn't read the document carefully. Just like a lot of Juggalos apparently.  

You continue to miss the point and repeatedly argue against shit no one is claiming. You also attack someone who isn't here to defend themselves. 

-no one thinks the gang list was a legal order to attack juggalos-.

No one, besides the voices in your head. 

If you think cpn is wrong in his opinion and understanding -go to his channel- and talk about it. 

You're arguing against something that no one,  not even icp, are arguing.  And you're doing it badly. 

Whoop Whoop, Noah Fence :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 18, 2018
3:28 am
vinyllover
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You continue to miss the point

I know what my points are and I know what yours are that I already took issue with (but agreed with others) as seen above. So I don't know what you mean. Unless this is it coming right up...

-no one thinks the gang list was a legal order to attack juggalos-.

1. Really? Tell that to the stupid female lawyer who had to have the judge explain that this 2011 report contained no final directive and thus you can't blame the FBI for what cops are doing at a local level.

2. Then that means Twiztid, Chuck Reeves, myself and a few others have been right all along. There is nothing wrong with the FBI report. It didn't turn every Juggalo into a suspect and it did not contain final agency directives on how to treat Juggalos. Therefore, the march was fucking stupid since it was based on the false premise of the FBI ruining Juggalos' lives.

So not only did you and apparently a shitload of Juggalos miss this part of the report and what it meant:

 

e

Juggalos are traditionally fans of the musical group the Insane Clown Posse. Arizona, California, Pennsylvania, and Utah are the only US states that recognize Juggalos as a gang.

 

But apparently this was also missed.
https://faygoluvers.net/v5/forum/general-discussion/so-if-juggalos-will-never-forgive-or-support-twiztid-again/page-2/#p204268

vinyllover said

http://www.aclumich.org/articl.....-goals  

Clip:

The Feds Admit that Juggalos Aren’t Gang Members 

Although the FBI refused to issue a statement to local police to counter the suggestion in the 2011 gang report that Juggalos were gang members, its attorneys repeatedly and clearly made the point throughout the litigation. From the very beginning, the FBI’s lawyers said that “only certain subsets of Juggalos were engaged in criminal activity,” not all Juggalos. Again on appeal, the government said that only “a small number of Juggalos are” engaging in gang-like activity. After we won the first appeal, the government insisted in its second motion to dismiss that “the report does not label the entire group or everyone associated with it as a criminal,” just a small number of people.

They aren't lying when they say this. And if local/state cops in other states treated Juggalos like that, that is THEIR fault, and NOT the FBI's fault of some dumb cops; these foolish police decided they need to start treating all Juggalos as suspects even though there is no clause in the 2011 NGIC report saying that needs to be done. You can't blame the FBI for stupid cops who read things in the report that are NOT THERE. Again, that is why the judges dismissed the suit against the FBI the second time and said, "Next time, take your fight to places X and Y, not Z."  

Once again, many Juggalos aren't paying attention and are not understanding the documents they claim to have read. They missed the part in the Endnotes.

September 18, 2018
10:30 am
Carnivalkilla44
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Bonesaw Wizardstick said when this thread was started

Nobody gives a shit.  

And believe it or not it still remains true...

Whoop Whoop, Carnivalkilla44 :

scruffy, SPOOKYtheFUNGI
September 18, 2018
4:07 pm
spookiTHEfunguy
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It's not about the details, it's about the ramifications (a consequence of an action or event, especially when complex or unwelcome)

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ramification

Quit arguing what the fuck the specifics are...cuz they are irrelevant.  It's all about how cops use things to bend(break) the rules to justify their actions...meaning they lie and try to trick non suspicious and non threatening citizens into search consents when they are bored or are trying to hit their quota. 

So check it out... I could be at a fair or amusement park or walking down the street, and a bored cop strolls by and checks out my clothes (we all know they profile people) and due to my clothes he is gonna assume I prolly have warrants or drugs on me or I'm prolly up to no good. (committing a crime ).

He will then stop me and try to ID me... I will ask if I'm being detained and he will likely say yes. When I ask for what,  he will ask for my ID in a rude and angry way again. At that point if I refuse to provide my ID,  he will then throw me up against his car and illegally search me and violate my rights. 

During the search he finds weed crumbs in my pocket and then charges me with possession.  After talking with his captain and/or other officers,  they justify violating my rights by saying I'm suspicious cuz I'm apart of a hybrid gang.  Lucky me gets a misdemeanor on my record, a days loss of pay for going to court instead of work,  and 243 dollars in fines. 

This is how this FBI bullshit affects juggalos,  not your faggot ass narrow minded literal perception.

Whoop Whoop, SPOOKYtheFUNGI :

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