Pigg said
With politics and religions and whatnot it can be divisive, but social media isn’t all bad. I mean shit, THIS is a social media site, to an extent.

Social media allows nearly instantaneous communication and sharing of information of a huge population of our planet. I for one think that is a good thing.   

Agree completely. Social media can be a very good thing for society. It’s not its fault that we haven’t really figured it out yet. It’s kind of the do you blame the gun or the gun owner situation. 

Noah Fence said
But that isn’t the way people talk about juggalos. Juggalo means inbred suicidal meth addict who can’t read or write to a good deal of people.  

This is true. Don’t know why either. I mean, it’s not like people go around slandering whole Juggalo websites to those exact people you’re talking about and thus furthering an already negative view on us based off of a vocalized minority…ya know? 

More to the topic at hand, @cheshyr, I feel for ya, man. Situations like that always suck and usually get skipped over. It’s a weird spot to be in for sure. Never had someone outright say that they’re done with me because I’m a Juggalo but I’ve had people just stop hangin around and stop talkin to me once they find out. Bitch of it is, sometimes those people are good people with the exception of that one fuckin hang up. For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t block and unfriend ya. 

Cheshyr said
Dear Fam,

I got MCL for all of you fuckers! Everyone from the ninjas I’ve ever Gathered with to the “down but troll-ish” fucks that run through here… That includes YOUR dumb ass, @lucem-ferre :P

Real shit…

On my personal page, I expressed an opinion regarding a current event that in the span of a DAY resulted in losing a friend of 25yrs (having unfriended and blocked me) and accused of being a “rape sympathizer” despite the event in question having NOTHING to do with sexual assault…

In the course of said “discussion” (with people I have known for DECADES (2 at least), there became a “point of order” that involved the mention of my having attended several “Gathering of the Juggalos” for which the response was, “You’re a Juggalo now? That explains a lot”….

FLH regulars will already know that I have my own “requirements” as to whether or not and before I go around struttin’ and sayin’ so as it pertains to my “juggalo status” [wink wink]…

But I feel like I’ve just been forced across that threshold to where I can’t help but say so without fear of reproach …

FUCK THOSE ASSHOLES!

There’s nothing quiet so surreal as having people you’ve known for YEARS and have done shit together that neither would ever want repeated, (bordering if not CROSSING on the “legally actionable” [ahem]), INVALIDATING entire friendships on the basis of a SIMPLE disagreement with accusations of all kinds of crazy slippery-slope bullshit arguments that ultimately end with,

“So you’re a juggalo now? That explains a lot.”…

It was in that moment… I felt something. I’m not sure the name. Not vindication (cuz that feels different). Not righteous indignation (I get accused of that all the time and it apparently also feels different). But… something like… conviction…(?)[insert youfuckedupchanthere]

Like… “You accuse me of being a piece of dogshit “rape denier/victim shamer” (repeat: about something that had NOTHING to do with sexual assault cuz that’s how crazy shit became) and denounce my objections to such because I “consort” with Juggalos?!…”

Never has an already BULLSHIT argument EVER been so soundly rebuked from the very mouth that uttered it (cow style).

Ya wanna know how to “win” an argument with an SJW “non-juggalo”… just wait for them to start talking shit ABOUT juggalos!

Really? You wanna school me on what’s “right n’ wrong” about society and oppressed groups and and the nature of victimhood… an’ then talk SHIT about juggalos being stupid, dirty, worthless pieces of shit?! And how the fact that I’ve made FRIENDS with them?! GASP!!! GTFOH!!!

An’ THAT is why I’m sayin’, I love you assholes! Like, that scene in “Friday” when Smokey sez,

“See? The weed be lettin’ you know… EVIL LURKS!”…   Ya’ll are that weed! ;P

Hangin’ with Juggalos on the REAL…?

You can’t FUCK with me on a whole LIST of shit with a juggalo on it, Cuz you talkin’ shit! An’ I’ll put an END to it! [tm]

 

Seriously though, I was put into a situation where I was forced to think about “all ya’ll” and how good (and shitty) you’ve been to me over the years… but you never stopped with me. I’d tell YOU to, “Go Fuck Yourself!”, you tell me “Find Me A Buttplug!”; “I hate your fuckin’ guts!”, “…and I hate the rest of you!”…. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE TROLL WARS… none of you have ever “turned me off”…

 

I lost a “life friend” I thought I’d continue to have for a very long time today…

 

I wasn’t nearly as okay with it until he tried to hurt me because I’m friends with YOU.

 

I love you all.

All praise Be to the the Beard of Saint Scottie with the D. Hallowed be Thy name. May your Gillette be ever sharp.

 

Yes… I *am* in fact drunk and stoned… but I’m kinda dealing with this shit tonight… and felt the need to “over share”…

G’nite  

I don’t care what u said or say, Kittykat. That’s your business. We’re living in an amazing, challenging time, a cultural/political civil war; I’ve heard that even marriages have broken up over the past election cycle (I’m guessing they really had problems in bed, but TRUMP… or something!) And please stop worshipping Scottie’s beard. And by that I mean Scruffy.

Fwiw I actually understand why your friend read that as a rape sympathiser or whatever.

In anti-rape activism and feminist circles you often hear 

“I’m not blaming the victim but” followed by “you wouldn’t wear gang colors on the wrong hood” or “wear a meat suit in front of a pack of wild dogs”.

These fail as analogies because most rapists are people the raped person knows well, and rape isn’t about sexual attraction but rather about power and dominance. So, the closest your analogies can come to the actual world is

Instead of wearing red in a crip neighborhood, imagine wearing red in the United States. Now, should you expect to be assaulted? The answer is clearly no. Red is a common color. A primary color, even. A patriotic color, even. It’s something everybody wears. 

Or instead of a meat suit in front of wild animals, how about you imagine you are made of meat and you live with a pack of animals that eat meat. Should you expect to be eaten? No. Right? Again this is something that is literally true for almost everybody.

People who are raped are doing literally nothing to provoke being raped except existing in the vicinity of a rapist who believes they can get away with it (because they typically do).

So at BEST all of the what were you wearing conversations do is say “try to get them to rape someone else” but even that is only true if we are talking about the much less common stranger rape.

So then in its worst form it is a restriction on behaviors of people who are most likely to be the victims of a crime, which typically for rape means women. 

The problem then becomes the intention of why bring up their clothes? Most often it’s to negate the responsibility of the attacker, right? In your wild animal analogy, rapists are hungry feral beasts who don’t know any better. In both analogies, the victim is deliberately antagonizing something or someone who is only doing what is expected of them.

So in your analogies, the most common perpetrators of rape, which are men, are wild feral beasts who are only doing what is expected of them and the most common victim of rape is an obnoxious antagonist trying to provoke an expected response.

I think you will agree that neither of those statements are true.

I mean in our community, women wear nothing or close to it and if someone were to rape them I believe you would be just as upset as any of us and would want some juggalo justice. Right?

So where does this interest in what the victim of a crime is wearing go?

There’s a meme that I see around which i think really counters it pretty excellently; rape is the only crime where the temptation to commit it is seen as a solid defense strategy rather than a confession.

If it makes you feel better, when I was out getting Damn. and looking for Altars at the CD store I had a discussion with the cute metal chick about how they are going to attract filthy juggalos by selling Faygo there she defended juggalos the whole time.

Cheshyr said
@krunkazphuk 

‘An not fer nuthin’ but… (while I’m feelin’ all warm n’shit)…

Having said all that, even after everything I’ve said about you and yours an’ your political views and posts n’shit…

I still KNOW and TELL that our “Vaunted “Faygoluvers Village” could not have been possible WITHOUT your help (despite ya’ll bein’ Ballas in yer A/C havin’ RV ass mafkas)… and that you HAVE been down WAY longer than *I have… No guff.

I’ve never prevented you from talking shit to me about it and you’ve never failed to respond (albeit with an occasional offensive .gif).

 

Trust me, I am NOT unaware of how FUCKED this makes a whole slew of my assertions around here (and elsewhere) and the thought of you two floobs and what I’ve said to you hasn’t crossed my mind! I’m NOT changing my view on the shit I said but just acknowledging that UNLIKE my “good friends” you HAVE NOT done to me what THEY did and silenced my thoughts so as to NOT hear them anymore… and that’s… admirable.

[that’s the best yer gonna get outta me, fuck trump, fuck your support of him and fuck you for doing so…. muahz!]  

Glad I could hook u up, u ungrateful commie bastard.

And I balled in a primitive tent and slept on the ground, but thanx for playing.

Cheshyr said

Noah Fence said…

No no no no no no no no no no no….

ALL that that you wrote has nothing to do with the matter at hand and is EXACTLY what they tried to do.

The event in question HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUAL ASSAULT!!!!!!!

There were ZERO PENIS’ going into ZERO ORIFICES….

But by the end, I am a RAPE DENIER.

 

This is all do to with what I have now dubbed and might even copyright onto a fuckin’ T-shirt…:

“The Transitive Properties of Righteous Indignation”

 

Regardless of the level of discourse that may have been going on about said event, going back to the examples:

“WHAT THE FUCK does someone avoidably going into a “bad hood” and getting murdered have ANYTHING to do with being complicit about sexual assault?!?!?”

[“because A => therefore C”]

In the above case, ‘A’ is someone getting murdered and ‘C’ is someone getting raped.

The ramifications of people constantly making these kinds logical fallacies against each other without being able to recognize them BEYOND their slippery-slope/straw man memes, is tearing this fucking country and our minds apart!!! Bitches Be Crazy!

 

An’ Noah…?  Ya just kinda tried to do the same thing to me again.

If I say that the homie in my example could have avoided getting himself killed… and you wanna argue about that… Do NOT talk to me about sexual consent… Do NOT find other ways to impugn my character or sense of self-worth (the juggalo shit) and DO NOT CALL ME A RAPE DENIER (or the somehow less offensive version of the term, victim blaming). [“because A => therefore C”]

Just because a premise shares certain attributes with another DOES NOT equate them! ESPECIALLY when the matter at the heart of EITHER premise has NO shared attributes! IE One is MURDER and the other is RAPE… while they may BOTH be crimes, they are NOT THE SAME THING and would have information added to them that would make them that much MORE unalike!

 

JUST LOOK AT ALL THESE LITTLE FUCKIN’ *RAPE DENIERS*!!!! The vicious fucks even came up with fuckin’ LYRICS AND CHOREOGRAPY to FURTHER shame these innocent children that were beset by a candy making hermit and his white glove wearin’ little RAPE DENIERS! Did they deserve that? OF COURSE NOT! Is ANYTHING about their lives up until the moment they got turned into a fuckin’ BLUEBERRY or shrunk down to a fuckin’ bug worth discussing or relating causation to?! No! And if you think it does… WELCOME TO THE CLUB!! You’re a rape denier.

https://youtu.be

I think you misunderstood my post. By like a mile.

I was telling you the context for which those analogies ARE used to victim blame. Whatever prompted those lines of thinking, those exact kinda prompts are things that people hear -every single day- when discussing rape which is why your friend made that association. 

While it’s totally within reason to go on and on about a theoretical murder and what may or may not have been the catalyst for any such crime, you should recognize that the way you choose to go about it carries a history and that history is what upset your friend.

The thing is, even if I’m wearing red in a crip hood and I died, it would still be investigated and the person would be charged if there was evidence and so forth. The killer is still a murderer. Everybody would agree with that more or less. But the thing is, it is a lot more complicated than wearing the wrong color. 

The problem with hypothetical crimes is that they are set up to prove the point they are trying to prove.

Imagine you’re wearing blue in a crip hood and someone kills you. What did you do to prompt it?

You shouldn’t have been in that area, at that time of night. 

What? No. It’s imaginary and inconsequential. The argument is flawed.

Does a hoodie mean you should be shot? What if it’s been raining? What if it’s a UCLA hoodie? Or a Dark Lotus hoodie?

The variables used to further define the crime are presumptions that set up a different scenario.

Anyhow, rape and murder and theft and accidental death are all things that require someone who is not mentioned outright and in specifics to make a choice to commit a crime and that choice is the catalyst that matters because using a hypothetical murder to discuss fault in a real crime shifts attention away from who actually made the decision to do something wrong.

But again, I’m talking the context and history of what you posted. 

Ironically, I could frame the history in a way that maybe you would understand. A hypothetical.

Imagine that you post on Facebook about a crime that is in your head, some idea that’s nagging at your brain which sounds exactly like what rape deniers say and a friend says sumthin rude and then blocks you. What did you do to provoke it?

Clearly you were asking for it, wearing blue in front if an sjw lmao. No, not really. The correct answer is that there was a misunderstanding and he jumped to a conclusion after you posted something that reads like a provocation.

Never really got hate for being a juggalo i showed a lot of people underground rappers in highschool people told me they like my hatchetman necklace people said whoop whoop back and everything