Obviously you've addressed this before, and again, it's obvious that what you do is in fact entertainment, but how do you reconcile that more brutal lyrical content with the material that has a more positive message?

Right. It's entertainment. Sometimes the music serves as therapy. Sometimes, it's everything. Some songs are entertainment, some songs are meant as therapy to help you work through something, and some songs are just us talking to other Juggalos, and when we're talking to other Juggalos, it's not necessary so ruthless. Sometimes we're talking to the world; some songs we're talking to each other.

If you're looking for something, you're going to find it. Our music is every way it can be. Most of it is entertainment. Some of it isn't. Some of it is very real, our beliefs. But most of it is our beliefs amped up. We would never kill somebody, but it's our beliefs amped up to super volume ten into these vigilante characters.

Chip Kalback

For more photos, visit our slide show of ICP at the Ogden.

A lot of hip-hop is like that. It's like a heightened reality or an exaggerated fantasy life in a sense to give yourself strength in a place of weakness or struggle.

That's right. As far as the religious stuff goes? That's real. We do believe in god. We do want to see Juggalos in heaven. I don't follow any one religion, but I know that there's a lot of real wisdom in the holy Qu'ran; I know there's a lot of wisdom in the Bible. I know there's a lot of good in religion because if you follow these religions, a lot of them really do support a good way of living and a way to be good to each other. Even if science proves that it's all bullshit there's a lot of good to religion. I honestly feel that way.

Oh, sure. Not everything in your life that is true or that has real significance would fit into current empirical scientific analysis about whether or not it's true. You can't prove the significance of loving someone or being loved.

It's funny you said that because I've always felt there is some real magic in this world that no science can explain. And love is one of them. Music is another. If science could tell you about what it is that makes the human ear like music, it seems that scientists would simply make the master song that the world would all love.

But they can't because there's magic behind music. That's why we don't all like the same music. We're all different, and music is magic, and love is magic. People looking at Juggalos and Insane Clown Posse on the outside? Sure there's a lot of punch lines there; there's a lot of easy things to point at us and laugh about. But on the inside, when you're us living our lives? There's a lot of real magic we feel when we're together.

Chip Kalback

For more photos, visit our slide show of ICP at the Ogden.

When we're together, we feel a real camaraderie with each other. Even though we may technically be strangers, we don't feel like that. We come together with a very special kinship that feels as magical as love or any other magic in the world. Even if it's only four hundred Juggalos at a concert one night, it doesn't feel like other shows where you have to look over your shoulder because you might get into a fight.

When you're a Juggalo and you come to a Juggalo show...that's why people love to come early. They want to sing songs in line, they want to be part of it. You find yourself having this friendship with these people you don't really know but you feel like you do because you have so much in common.

There's a lot of real magic there. People grow up having memories about it. It means a lot to them. That's why we've always said, "You feel this magic going on? We believe it's god." We've always said that. It's god that's bringing us together; it's god that's looking out for us.

That's interesting how you acknowledge the role of science as one side of humanity's attempt at finding the truth. When you put out that song "Miracles" and the video, some people made way too much out of the "magnets" lyric. You clearly have a sense of how magnets work; it was just kind of a funny line.

I know that there's a scientific explanation for how magnets work. I know that people know how magnets work. But when I wrote that line, I looked at my five-year-old playing with magnets at the table, and I realized it's just another cool thing in this world. Little things can be magical, too, to different people. Even though there's an explanation behind it, it's just another beautiful thing in the world. It's just like how when the sun is shining, and it looks really huge, there's a scientific explanation for why it looks that way, but that doesn't mean it's not cool.

Exactly, the scientific explanation doesn't explain why it's beautiful or why it strikes you specifically in that moment.

Right. Even though they can tell you what's causing the Northern Lights in Alaska, it doesn't explain why they're awesome and they're not magical to people.

Chip Kalback

For more photos, visit our slide show of ICP at the Ogden.

You can describe the scientific principle for how it does what it does but not necessarily why it exists that way.

And if they can explain a rainbow, that's cool. That doesn't mean they're not cool to look at. We point them out every time we see one.

Chip Kalback

For more photos, visit our slide show of ICP at the Ogden.

Was that video for "Where's God" something you directed?

You know, I'll be honest: This is the first time I've ever told anybody this. That particular video, there was a guy, Douglas Schultz, that liked the song so much, he was a local film director here in Michigan, and he was making a movie, and he wanted that song on the soundtrack. He said, "Listen, if you guys allow me to use that song in my movie, I'll film a video for you and give it to you guys." Even though we have our own video department putting out videos, we said, "Sure. Let us write the video up." They ended up shooting the video, and gave us all the reels, and we edited it together and everything.

Our role was writing the video, and it basically shows Shaggy and myself carrying crosses down the street to the people. It was supposed to show people in hard times and hardships of life, like a guy doing drugs and the girl gets up and follows the religion as a way out, as something to believe in. More and more people join us, and at the end we're all just humans looking up and wondering if there is god there and a gold light cascades down on us. It just shows we're all believing.

Where in Detroit did you film that?

We filmed it right in the city. We filmed some parts in Hamtramck, which is a city surrounded by Detroit.