kingshiro said

  

Apparently “🎵Today’s the day the homophobes get their asses kicked🎵.”

YouTube Video I love willies… 

Chevy2Dope said

I respect the transgender shirts and I think it sends a good message. But, reading through a lot of the comments on the article posted on the main page of Faygoluvers was pretty disappointing. So many “Juggalos” calling him a faggot for this and just a lot of overall ignorance. I know ICP has used the word “faggot” a lot and of course we know Slow Your Roll, but whatever happened to accepting all comers to the Juggalo world? I’m just a regular, straight, married white dude by the way.   

Yeah, after I saw the response I posted my own in opposition to it. There seemed to be 2 categories of idiots against it. One were just bigot ass chicken fucks, enough said. The other seemed to think that Ouija was “spreading” the lgbt community to the juggalos, and were just afraid of them trying to make it a fucking safe space, Even though Shaggy 2 dope said years ago he thinks homophobia is stupid and bigoted, which is the same endorsement Ouija is giving just less specific.

and also just because there is a trans community doesn’t even mean that every trans person is a member of said community. This can be said of any community really, you can be black and not be from a black community, just as you can be white and from a black community. 

And anyone who says “we can’t let the lgbt community in, they’ll try to make it a safe space” is as tone deaf as a brain dead dog. By not letting in members of other communities they are creating their own safe spaces, just sitting in their little echo chambers acting like everyone else is just SOOO sensitive, but not them, but don’t put any LGBT people near them, they’re afraid of those. Shit makes me sick. No real juggalo/juggalette needs any echo chamber bullshit like that.

No real juggalo needs a safe space, and no real juggalo needs an echo chamber. If my presence is intimidating to other so called juggalos/juggalettes then that says a lot more about them than me.

Iris The Tranny juggalette said

Chevy2Dope said

I respect the transgender shirts and I think it sends a good message. But, reading through a lot of the comments on the article posted on the main page of Faygoluvers was pretty disappointing. So many “Juggalos” calling him a faggot for this and just a lot of overall ignorance. I know ICP has used the word “faggot” a lot and of course we know Slow Your Roll, but whatever happened to accepting all comers to the Juggalo world? I’m just a regular, straight, married white dude by the way.   

Yeah, after I saw the response I posted my own in opposition to it. There seemed to be 2 categories of idiots against it. One were just bigot ass chicken fucks, enough said. The other seemed to think that Ouija was “spreading” the lgbt community to the juggalos, and were just afraid of them trying to make it a fucking safe space, Even though Shaggy 2 dope said years ago he thinks homophobia is stupid and bigoted, which is the same endorsement Ouija is giving just less specific.

and also just because there is a trans community doesn’t even mean that every trans person is a member of said community. This can be said of any community really, you can be black and not be from a black community, just as you can be white and from a black community. 

And anyone who says “we can’t let the lgbt community in, they’ll try to make it a safe space” is as tone deaf as a brain dead dog. By not letting in members of other communities they are creating their own safe spaces, just sitting in their little echo chambers acting like everyone else is just SOOO sensitive, but not them, but don’t put any LGBT people near them, they’re afraid of those. Shit makes me sick. No real juggalo/juggalette needs any echo chamber bullshit like that.

No real juggalo needs a safe space, and no real juggalo needs an echo chamber. If my presence is intimidating to other so called juggalos/juggalettes then that says a lot more about them than me.  

A lot of these types don’t even understand what a safe space is. They think it’s trying to turn the world into a specific mindset about one thing. They don’t get that the reason it’s called a safe space is that it is a designated space SEPARATE from the general space.

There are actually safe spaces in the Juggalo world. I personally know of a few facebook groups which are extremely exclusive and exist specifically to process through the bigotries that pop up occasionally. 

I found out he’s friends with Alex Jones.

cRyPtiC_tHe_CLoWn said
I found out he’s friends with Alex Jones.  

Pretty sure it’s not the real Alex jones lol

TheFvckinKreeper said 
(A lot of interesting things)

I keep an eye out for attempts to equate language with violence. Dangerous stuff. I’m guessing that in those exclusive Facebook groups mentioned above stuff like that is rampant. And speaking of the real Alex Jones, I’d party with this freak:

YouTube Video Finally Alex Jones is Watchable – Info Derps! – Meme 

TheFvckinKreeper said

Before I get started, I’m going to say this: Identity politics are divisive, and its that way by design. The issue of human rights is much simpler than any movement, politician or ideology would have you believe, no matter your cause: They’re equal and inalienable so long as your actions harm none and do not infringe upon others. That’s it. Everything else is there to obfuscate, and put you at the throat of your fellow man. I don’t care if you disagree because this is the truth. 

My biggest beef with “Identity politics are divisive!!!” claims is that it’s usually directed at people who literally just want to express themselves however they want and not at the people saying nah. Like my gay friends or family wanting to get married and people saying no, it’s against their religion. You have two conflicting identities and one is directly affected while the other isn’t. Now it’s pretty popular opinion to say you don’t care if gay people get married but only a few years ago people were being targeted with violence for it. So yeah, identity politics is divisive but the best way to end the division is to just let people be who they wanna be.

The same goes for trans people. It doesn’t affect you one way or the other if a trans person wants to transition. At all. It has literally 0% impact on you. And I’m using “you” as a general, not you specifically, kreeper. So the divisiveness is in the people trying to block trans people from having equal access. Trans people have been in public schools, and using public restrooms, for decades in the US without hardly an incident of men pretending to be women using access to bathrooms to spy on children and yet fox news drilled this predatory trans narrative into the ground to create division.

Any form of “identity politics” is divisive not because of the identity issue, but because of the manipulation of narrative designed to rile people up against the expressed identity.

Another caveat: I would never, ever advocate the restriction of another person’s use of language, even if I don’t agree with it. What is more important than the words is the intention behind the words and that cannot be stated enough.

Now, take G-mo for example. What happened with him and the aftermath of the pull his resume diss was an embarrassment among Juggalos, and one that doesn’t get talked about enough. I’m talking *specifically* about the Juggalos who thought it was okay to call G-mo a nigger and make other racially charged comments in the aftermath of the J diss. I don’t give a fuck if he put out a diss on my 12 year old niece, he didn’t deserve that. And miss me with that “well to me its a ignorant person” crap, if that was the case you wouldn’t have waited until a young black man offended your sensibilities to pull that gun out. In my crew, saying that in reference to a black man with bigoted intent gets you knocked out by the white boys out of principal, and that’s not an exaggeration. That happens.

The bolded parts seem like a contradiction. I feel you though. I’m not a violent person by any means and you’d rarely catch me throwing fists at someone but I’ll point out that they’re saying something that is flat out ignorant. Oddly, people seem to take that as worse than throwing fists sometimes. Actually restricting peoples language is a potential disaster though. Like there was a school in the south, I forget which state but I wanna say Louisiana that banned the word “gay” because people were going around saying everything they didn’t like was gay. Homeworks gay, etc. This cut back on kids calling each other gay, but quickly turned into punishing kids for saying that they were gay.  

That’s why I have a distaste for CPN making it hip and acceptable among Juggalos to call people coons now. I’ve heard all the rationalization and justification about it, I’m not here to debate that, and like I said I don’t restrict the language of others. Now, I don’t know how it is in AZ, but around my way that word used exclusively by racists. I’m not talking about casual racists either, I mean the KKK and skinhead affiliated ones, again, no exaggeration. My issue with it is, some people are going to use it in order to mask their bigotry under the banner of, “Well, it’s cool now.” That said, I also understand the fluid nature of language (for example, people rail against the colloquiel usage of “retard” without realizing that the same thing happened with “idiot” one hundred years prior, and we’re seeing it with “autist” now. It’s the tragic destiny of mental diagnosis language to turn derogatory), so perhaps it may evolve away from its hateful connontation, but I’ll have no part in it. It’s Randall trying to take Porch Monkey back, the way that I see it.

I really like this part of your post. A+ 10/10.

Now, the LGBT issue. I’ll start with the word “faggot”. I’ve used it as a derogatory slur. I still will, if I think it’ll cut the way I need it to. This does not make it okay. To clarify, I never used it to demean anybody of gay persuasion- I’m an asshole, not a bigot. This still doesn’t make it okay. It’s a potent, imasculating term no matter who it’s applied to. Only over the past year have I made the conscious effort to excise it from my vocabulary, as a question of my own maturity. I realize that I can’t hold conviction about the word “nigger” without feeling the same about the marginalising connontation of this word, without being a hypocrite. I still use synonymous descriptors like fruity or faggy, largely when I’m talking about myself. I’m mindful, but I’m not perfect.

Being mindful is really all anybody wants. It took me a while to stop using faggot. I went to a high school that was incredibly gay friendly. I’m talking walking down the halls and seeing openly gay couples (men and women) making out or having sex in the bathroom stalls. Our student body president was a girl who was dating the head cheerleader. They were promqueen and king and were the most popular kids in school, but I had internalized a lot of my families homophobia and used the slur here and there. Never often and certainly never thinking about sexuality while I did it, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t wrong. it was. And it was incredibly hurtful to people around me, even if they weren’t the ones I was saying it to or about. Once I realized that I cut it out and it took some time. It wasn’t until I was in my early 20s that I stopped using it all together.

Someone very close to me is an advocate for LGBT issues. This is good for me, because it’s exposed me to an aspect of culture that might never have come up, otherwise. I’ve been called homo/transphobic for criticizing the politics surrounding the transgender movement, which is simply not true. Phobic means fear, where my criticism comes from a place of genuine concern for my fellow human beings. I can’t help if I’m not believed, but this is the truth.

I’m of two minds about this. Like, yes the word phobe means fear but I don’t think anybody is really afraid of the people they hate. They just don’t like them and want to keep them under a certain level of control. They are uncomfortable with the idea of something outside of their experience becoming the new normal. On the other hand a lot of the phobia language is derived from the 80s and the aids scare that was rampant. Before we understood the disease we mistakenly believed it was a gay disease and so people were genuinely afraid of people who were different. It wasn’t until we recognized that straight people were contracting the disease that we did anything about it. 

The other issue is that I think it’s interesting that you feel like you know more about the trans issue than trans people. Like, I don’t say this to be insulting to you but “concern for my fellow human beings” is great, but when you use that concern to question their experiences (experiences you’ve never had and probably don’t know that much about) it seems odd. 

Identity is whatever you make it out to be. I learned this *as* a Juggalo- I don’t see how anybody who claims this could think otherwise without serious cognitive dissonance. So of course I’m down with transexuals, anything that gives the underground as much texture and variety  as possible is great in my eyes.

I think that may be my favorite part of this post.

What I think transpeople need to watch out for is the trappings surrounding their community.

I’m going to be cautiously optimistic and ask you to explain this further?

The trans struggle is fundamentally more complex than the gay rights struggle. I say that because, behind it, and intrinsically linked to it, is a medical-industrial complex that has never, not once, not EVER been stood for the overall health of the people. I’m not just talking about trans people here- suboxone for drug addicts, anti depressants/psychotics for mental illness, so on, historically nobody can take a step back and say “Well, that worked out well in the end for everybody.” Because it is a machine, and it does not give a fuck about you. I’m not saying don’t use it, just make sure you go forth with understanding and know with as much certainty as possible that this will benefit you.

Do you know how difficult it is for trans people get the medical treatment they seek?

You have to spend YEARS convincing multiple therapists, general practitioners, and psychiatrists that you need gender reassignment to alleviate gender dysphoria. YEARS. (minimum is two but if someone decides to be a gatekeeper, it can take much longer). Either during or after this time, you have to live as the other gender without hormonal treatment which means subjecting yourself to abuses and violence. Physical, often sexual, violence. I have several trans friends who simply for dressing in their gender affirming ways were beaten and raped. When some men see a trans woman who they find attractive and then find out the woman is someone they think is a man, they get angry and violent. None of the trans people I know well enough to have talked about it, who have been out and presenting as their true selves for more than a year, have not been raped. Not one. This constant onslaught of violence, in addition to people misgendering them and harassing them with questions about their genitals, etc, leads to suicide, drug addiction and self harm in disproportionate numbers. Remarkably disproportionate numbers. 

Then you get the hormones, finally. Yay. You start taking them and you have to be on them for a few years typically before you can get gender affirming surgery, which is incredibly expensive and not typically covered by insurance. 

Meanwhile trans people face large problems with employment. It is legal in many states to fire people because of their sexual identity. I think we’re at 22 states still that allow it. In other states they use various justifications. A lot of trans people are disowned by their families and become homeless. Many homeless shelters of operated by christian organizations who exclude queer and trans people from their services. 

Imagine having to go through all of that and have someone say, “but don’t make this decision lightly”. 

*ANYBODY* who subscribes to a form of identity politics (and politics in general, really), should be mindful of how their movement is being applied. Reformation of institutions, reduction of language, propagation on either side of the argument, all of these things exist to obfuscate, put you into a column, and give you an enemy to fight. Typically among your neighbors. And if you think your cause is too righteous to be co-opted by an existing power scructure, you’re mistaken. Ordo Ab Chao, the shit is real, look it up. Thing is, anybody with true understanding of their personal sovereignty as an individual recognizes how meaningless most of the shit is. I read too goddamn much to say otherwise. 

The power structure is status quo. There’s no secret government trying to divide people. Have you ever read Foucault? I forget which essay it is that he says it in but he talks about how people operate with a fear of being socially deviant to an extreme. Deviant sounds bad, lets say variant but that’s not quite right either. Anyway, he supposes that we operate on a social behavior in comparison to each other and we all want to be “normal” to some degree but what is expressed as normal changes and is malleable. Normal to you and I is different than normal to a donald trump or a barack obama. 

So our society creates behaviors with which we use to gauge other peoples behaviors. Gender roles are a big part of this. Like why do we think pink is for girls and blue is for boys? Why do we think boys should get baseball bats and girls should get dolls? Why do dress codes in high schools regulate boys clothes and girls clothes differently? 

So Foucault says we all spy on each other and make these tiny judgments about them without even realizing it, and those judgments ripple out and become significant life altering circumstances. 

And it can be something good or bad. Like look at the simpsons. Bart is “normal” and even though he misbehaves he is within the realm of acceptable and he gets punished by the authority and he continues on with his life. But Lisa -isn’t- normal. She’s too smart and people don’t want to be around her. So she becomes lonely and isolated unless she pretends she isn’t as smart as she is or she meets people who don’t know how smart she is. Obviously this is fictional, but it’s something we see all the time in the real world.

People who are exceptionally smart are often seen as eccentric, and people who are developmentally delayed until the point of being out of the “norm” are socially penalized and isolated. but it isn’t just intelligence.

People who are autistic are literally categorized for behaving slightly out of sync with most of society. Many autistic people are completely functional in their lives. I was mentor to a youth who is on the spectrum a few years back and the kid is bright, not exceptionally so, and curious about the world but he’s also autistic and that gets a whole lot of issues placed on him. Simply because he processes things differently in his mind.

When he talks about power dynamics he talks about the way we organize the world and how theres a lot of things we do that don’t really make sense on the surface of them, unless you think about -why- it’s done to control people.

Like public restrooms with multiple stalls. Most are perfectly private except at the feet. Why do we need to be able to verify the feet? We want to make sure that people are using the restroom the “right way”. How ridiculous is that? Why do I care if they aren’t using the toilet the “right way”? 

Or how in a classroom, especially at big universities, everybody can see what’s on your computer because we darken where the students sit just a little and let the brightness of their devices be slightly brighter than they would be otherwise. What do I care if the guy three rows up is watching family guy? or porn? or working on something else? Why do I need to be able to see that? I don’t, but every class room that isn’t a studio art class that I’ve been in has been set up so that I will.

Probably the best example of the way Foucault sees the world is in an episode of Black Mirror where we use social media likes to validate a persons social standing and because of a few behaviors too many, a woman’s rating plummets, and no matter how hard she works to climb up she falls further, until she’s literally imprisoned for being undesirable.

Foucault talks about the way we used to treat the mentally ill and how we treat them now as being an inconvenience so we drug em up and lock em away. Mental asylums are far and away better than they used to be even only 50 years ago, but they’re still mostly just about segregating out people who act weird. Not necessarily violent, but different from the norm. 

There was a time when we would literally lock women up for having their periods. And we still lock homeless people up simply because they’re homeless. 

Our brains like information that we already have and this gets carried to the point where people acting different than we expect or looking different than we expect becomes almost painful. We want to regulate everything into normality and the world just doesn’t work that way.

I’m not familiar with the freemasonry phrase you used but it sounds like there’s some overlap in thinking there.

And anybody who thinks this post is defending political correctness can lick scrote. Fuck political correctness right in its retarded gypsy greasy wop-ass. Ultimately that’s just a leash for language, and I fucking love language, that’s why I advocate its mindful usage instead of prohibition. This is about knowing and respecting your fellow human beings. That’s it. All of the words I talked about can be applied positively, with proper context, depending on the intent. The saving grace of our prejudices (which is not the same thing as bigotry, mind you) is that it can be used with humor to bridge our gap in understanding. Prior to writing this novella, I had a conversation with the afformentioned LGBT advocate about all this, who saidm”It doesn’t surprise me that Juggalos would wanna roast Ouija about it. If they wanna call him, like, The Psychopathic Fag-Hag or be like ‘YO OUIJA TRYNA SAVE UP FOR A SEX CHANGE!’, I’d expect it. I can’t think of anything *more* Juggalo. That *IS* Juggalo, it’s what they do. Anybody taking time to actually get in their feelings about it or give a fuck what he does or doesn’t support is just being lame and extra. Prolly just mad Ouija won’t buy them a pussy instead.”

 

I fucking died.  

I generally agree with the bolded, save for “intent”. Intent is hard to gauge and while you can intend to do one thing, the outcome can be significantly different. Impact, regardless of intent, is an important thing to consider.

One of my favorite quotes comes from Octavia E. Butler 

People have the right to call themselves whatever they like. That doesn’t bother me. It’s other people doing the calling that bothers me.

Her use of bothers me is, I think, apt. It’s unsettling to her because she knows that the way we think about people becomes how we treat them. And, returning to foucault, if we think white or straight or cisgender or middle class or whatever is “normal”, then when we start pushing people out of “normal” into categories that we think of as negative and positive, we begin to apply behaviors to those people.

Like with minorities we see general acceptance of “racial science” because asian immigrants tend to do better academically and economically, despite there being large cultural contributions and social behaviors behind the statistics that is used to justify these claims. Then once these slurs become ingrained in social dialog it is easy to create narratives about how one group is the cause of problems to the group labeled normal. We saw it in WW2 and despite what a lot of people want to think right now, we’re seeing it again. We saw it with slavery, and the trail of tears, and japanese interment camps too. 

And then we label the people being maligned as “identity politics” and discredit their voices.

There’s another great quote that I can’t find by butler that goes something like “if a cause or leader is not strong enough to unify people, they will divide” and I think that’s alarmingly true. 

Everybody should read butler, she was so fucking brilliant about how flawed we are as humans. 

#ouijawacc

nuff said lol

Noah Fence said 

…Then once these slurs become ingrained in social dialog it is easy to create narratives about how one group is the cause of problems…

Says a word-policing

who starts threads with words like “Dotard” in their name. Maybe scrape the Marxist bullshit off ur shoes before continuing to claim the high road? Or perhaps post another divisive manifesto? Since we’re sharing favorite quotes here’s one of mine that comes from nameless ninjas since the dawn of time:

after bumpin Ouija a few more times. now that I’m high, I’m hella feelin this song… I think it will flow good with the album too, Ouija got that bone triple 6 flow, I think this album will be gooood duuuude.

oh there’s this sexy ass chick on Youtube called LAEL … she does reviews, I told her to review Ghost, I think it would be cool to see her review a psychopathic records video! so yeah tell her to review Ouija macc’s video… she has a sexy booty. Lael Hansen, dude…