10:45 pm
September 12, 2016
Thoughts? They have love for the juggalos, but i feel like they could have said better things about ICP. Considering they closed main-stage night 1 at GOTJ this year, funny interview overall.
12:56 am
March 30, 2018
2:48 am
July 28, 2016
7:16 am
November 22, 2016
I hate that he didn't ask them what exactly they meant by "problematic". I feel like sometimes hosts are afraid to ask these kinda follow up questions because they want to feel comfortable and establish a vibe along the lines of "I get you, we are on the same page" and it's more about their personal experience in that moment and less about what the viewer might want to know. Not that that is bad per se, podcasts are successful when they feel personal, but it can be frustrating. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. Fuck it, disregard that.
Based on what he said afterwards, I'm guessing to him they are problematic because he accuses white rappers (at least many of them) of cultural appropriation? Or did anybody interpret that differently?
12:47 pm
July 28, 2016
T.O. said
I hate that he didn't ask them what exactly they meant by "problematic". I feel like sometimes hosts are afraid to ask these kinda follow up questions because they want to feel comfortable and establish a vibe along the lines of "I get you, we are on the same page" and it's more about their personal experience in that moment and less about what the viewer might want to know. Not that that is bad per se, podcasts are successful when they feel personal, but it can be frustrating. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. Fuck it, disregard that.Based on what he said afterwards, I'm guessing to him they are problematic because he accuses white rappers (at least many of them) of cultural appropriation? Or did anybody interpret that differently?
I don't think they were accusing icp of cultural appropriation. He even says that the racing of music isn't that simple. He said at first he was cautious of them because many white rappers are racist.
I don't know gwars music. They seem pretty violent and grotesque but not as homophobic and sexist. I don't think there's any question that icp's lyrics are counter intuitive considering their message of acceptance and community, which is the most definitive use of problematic.
I think many people use problematic to mean not politically correct but I think complicated is more accurate. There's certain things that are very good, and others that are very very bad. And by good / bad, I mean in terms of social issues.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
1:02 pm
April 27, 2015
2:16 pm
November 22, 2016
Noah Fence said
I don't think they were accusing icp of cultural appropriation. He even says that the racing of music isn't that simple. He said at first he was cautious of them because many white rappers are racist.
I only watched the part from 16:15 - 18:18, in that at least he didn't say anything about white rappers being racist, did you watch more of it where he does say that? So since the only thing he mentioned that could be seen as some sort of an explanation as to why he thinks ICP is problematic is that he is generally suspicious of white rappers, I figured he might think of it as at least partially culturally appropriating (partially because of the disclaimer he put afterwards about the racing of music). But maybe those were just separate points.
Noah Fence said
I don't know gwars music. They seem pretty violent and grotesque but not as homophobic and sexist. I don't think there's any question that icp's lyrics are counter intuitive considering their message of acceptance and community, which is the most definitive use of problematic.
I think many people use problematic to mean not politically correct but I think complicated is more accurate. There's certain things that are very good, and others that are very very bad. And by good / bad, I mean in terms of social issues.
I would agree with you about that. Although I guess dude didn't give any indication that this was where he was coming from (which also would basically make most of hip hop culturally problematic (not that it isn't, but I don't think that was his point)). Who knows, though.
4:04 pm
January 11, 2017
6:11 pm
July 28, 2016
T.O. said
I would agree with you about that. Although I guess dude didn't give any indication that this was where he was coming from (which also would basically make most of hip hop culturally problematic (not that it isn't, but I don't think that was his point)). Who knows, though.
He didn't use the word racist, he implied it. Cultural appropriation is an act of racism. Saying he's suspicious of white rappers is saying that he thinks there's a potential of racism. Which there is *looks at iggy azalea*, even if it is more complicated than how it is often presented.
Also, I don't know that it's fair to say all hip hop is just as problematic. It's complicated because there are different pools of hip hop. Many of these pools, especially gangsta rap and it's adjacent genres, are often homophobic and misogynistic. This is where my comment about problematic comes in from earlier.
Tyler the Creator is problematic because as a queer person who has created a name for himself on homophobic language, he complicates the discourse around homophobic slur.
That said, someone like Eminem isn't problematic because his use of homophobic slurs isn't uncomplicated. He's just being homophobic.
If that makes sense.
Also it's all conjecture.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
6:54 pm
April 27, 2015
Went back and rewatched it. I picked up on what he was saying and trying to explain. I just it felt his answer on racing of music fell flat(mainly rap). Back in the day predominantly Rap was seen as black people music but the 90s changed that and started to break the barrier down and now it's more widely accepted to see white rappers and it's a norm. As to where black rockers are a bit more rare though their are some out there. I don't see any reason to be suspicious unless you know the individuals. Really didn't elaborate much on ICP. I will say I doubt Gwar and ICP talk much other then being reached out to play the Gathering.
ICP did tour with Dave's Gwar I wanna say back in the 90s. (Correct me if wrong) and Oderus was on the ICP theater.
As I said I miss Daves interviews so much. If this was him he would have said "ICP they fucking suck but I love them because they offer me free fat fucking Juggalette pussy yearly at the Gathering as payment for the gig"😂
10:36 pm
July 28, 2016
12:35 am
November 22, 2016
Noah Fence said
I don't think they were accusing icp of cultural appropriation. [...] He said at first he was cautious of them because many white rappers are racist.
Noah Fence said
He didn’t use the word racist, he implied it. Cultural appropriation is an act of racism.
Now I'm not sure what your point is anymore. Do you think his suspicion of white rappers had something to do with his feeling about ICP being problematic? Because then: ICP = problematic, because white rappers, because racism, because cultural appropriation. Which contradicts your first point.
8:24 am
Members
August 6, 2013
2:24 pm
September 28, 2013
3:45 pm
May 4, 2013
Cultural appropriation is NOT “ an act of racism” lol, it’s paying homage to said culture and honestly should be considered flattering.
And ICP absolutely appropriated black culture hard as fuck in their early career:
“In the haughhh”
“What up my ninja”
I remember the controversy of spin magazine calling them out on exactly this in the 90s
Cultural appropriation is only racist/offensive when it’s done to purposefully mock said culture.
If you get mad at a kid because they want to dress up as an Indian/Native American, you’re purposely looking for something to be faux outraged at and you’re part of the problem, not the solution...
Jesus, we live in the dumbest era of human history...
Whoop Whoop JuggaloJ :
Noah Fence5:16 pm
July 28, 2016
T.O. said
Noah Fence said
I don't think they were accusing icp of cultural appropriation. [...] He said at first he was cautious of them because many white rappers are racist.Noah Fence said
He didn’t use the word racist, he implied it. Cultural appropriation is an act of racism.Now I'm not sure what your point is anymore. Do you think his suspicion of white rappers had something to do with his feeling about ICP being problematic? Because then: ICP = problematic, because white rappers, because racism, because cultural appropriation. Which contradicts your first point.
I think when he describes them as problematic he's expressing a second, different thought.
Like the white rappers thing seems to be a first impression comment and the problematic comment seems to be about what he currently thinks about them.
JuggaloJ said
Cultural appropriation is NOT “ an act of racism” lol, it’s paying homage to said culture and honestly should be considered flattering.And ICP absolutely appropriated black culture hard as fuck in their early career:
“In the haughhh”
“What up my ninja”
I remember the controversy of spin magazine calling them out on exactly this in the 90s
Cultural appropriation is only racist/offensive when it’s done to purposefully mock said culture.
If you get mad at a kid because they want to dress up as an Indian/Native American, you’re purposely looking for something to be faux outraged at and you’re part of the problem, not the solution...
Jesus, we live in the dumbest era of human history...
Intent isn't really all it takes. Outcome means more than intent. I'm generally more in the "who makes money" side of camp since white people don't often recognize the layered nature of racism. White people think of racism as a transactional incident like violence or not giving someone a job, etc instead of the systemic way that people of color experience racism but everybody understands economics.
So I don't get too mad at white people wearing head dresses, it just makes them look like an asshole. Who I'm mad at is the person selling the head dresses, who isn't native.
There was an episode of girl meets world I saw a gif of of Corey shaming some 12 year old girl for liking amine and accusing her of cultural appropriation and I was just like buddy you're a character on a DISNEY show. Disney are the worst perpetrators of cultural appropriation.
ICP have used their white privilege to help establish people of color and while some of the aesthetics of their career are cultural appropriation, their career isn't generally at the detriment to black rappers. Unlike Eminem, no one would list icp as the best rappers. They don't exploit black artists or use them as props the way iggy azalea does, and they've established their own lingo instead of co opting AAVE.
I don't think cultural appropriation is ever a positive or good thing. It's not appreciation.
Appreciation is being like man I love tacos and I want to pay this hole in the wall to make tacos for me. I'm gonna tip them and treat them well so that these people can thrive in our society.
Cultural appropriation is being like damn, this little taco shop is making bank. I should open a taco bell next door and clean up. It's not my fault if they go out of business, just because I can make tacos cheaper by being part of a system of privilege that the little store doesn't have access to.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
5:41 pm
May 4, 2013
So you’re saying that ICP never made money establishing themselves and their career by appropriating hip hop/black culture? Yet Iggy gets your panties in a bunch, cause... why?
Yea...you’re real consistent and not hypocritical at all...
Neither ICP or Iggy should feel one bit ashamed of their love/appreciation for hip hop and black culture, and if they’re able to cut into that lane and be successful - more power to them for doing what they love and being able to profit from it.
If Taco Bell can outsell an authentic Mexican spot next door and runs them out of business, that’s called capitalism baby! May the stronger business who can draw more consensual costumers survive. That’s perfectly, morally correct. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. (But let’s be real, Taco Bell sux and authentic Mexican is where it’s at, so this situation should never exist in reality)
Telling someone they shouldn’t be able to do something or can’t profit from something because of the amount of melanin in their skin - is racism...congrats bigot
6:34 pm
May 4, 2014
6:58 pm
September 28, 2013
6:20 am
Members
August 6, 2013
JuggaloJ said
So you’re saying that ICP never made money establishing themselves and their career by appropriating hip hop/black culture? Yet Iggy gets your panties in a bunch, cause... why?Yea...you’re real consistent and not hypocritical at all...
Neither ICP or Iggy should feel one bit ashamed of their love/appreciation for hip hop and black culture, and if they’re able to cut into that lane and be successful - more power to them for doing what they love and being able to profit from it.
If Taco Bell can outsell an authentic Mexican spot next door and runs them out of business, that’s called capitalism baby! May the stronger business who can draw more consensual costumers survive. That’s perfectly, morally correct. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. (But let’s be real, Taco Bell sux and authentic Mexican is where it’s at, so this situation should never exist in reality)
Telling someone they shouldn’t be able to do something or can’t profit from something because of the amount of melanin in their skin - is racism...congrats bigot
How do you determine what is perfectly morally correct?
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