7:50 pm
July 28, 2016
10:28 am
October 8, 2014
2:57 pm
July 28, 2016
3:46 pm
May 4, 2014
4:44 pm
July 28, 2016
Guest said
Lol does your banner call for the burning of facists AND books? Cognitive dissonance much? You can’t make this shit up, it wouldn’t be believable.
It’s about burning symbols. There’s nothing fascist about burning shit in effigy.
A demonstration that burns a bible isn’t about censorship but about voicing an opinion. It’s burn -A- book not burn -ALL- books / copies of a certain book.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
5:24 pm
Moderators
February 15, 2014
@noah-fence , I agree, but some things need to change. If burning the Bible is ok, then don’t make burning the Koran a hate crime. If burning the American flag is allowed, then again, don’t make burning other flags a hate crime.
While I can understand that burning a flag can be argued as OK under the 1st Amendment, there is still an issue…
18 U.S. Code Title 18, Part I, Chapter 33, Section. 700: Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties:
(a)(1) Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(2) This subsection does not prohibit any conduct consisting of the disposal of a flag when it has become worn or soiled.
6:13 pm
July 28, 2016
Psyral Infection said
@noah-fence , I agree, but some things need to change. If burning the Bible is ok, then don’t make burning the Koran a hate crime. If burning the American flag is allowed, then again, don’t make burning other flags a hate crime.While I can understand that burning a flag can be argued as OK under the 1st Amendment, there is still an issue…
18 U.S. Code Title 18, Part I, Chapter 33, Section. 700: Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties:
(a)(1) Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(2) This subsection does not prohibit any conduct consisting of the disposal of a flag when it has become worn or soiled.
Hate crimes are against people or property. It isn’t so much the object being disrespected that is hateful but when you use that act of disrespect to intimidation.
It’s also important to recognize the differences in power.
If you burn something like a US flag you are speaking to a body of which you belong, assuming you are in America. If you are an American, especially a white American, and you wanna burn the Mexican flag, you are now speaking to a body that is other and which has less political power than you do. And if you wanna burn a Mexican flag in order to scare, harass, intimidate, or cause harm to immigrants, then you are committing a hate crime. The crime isn’t in burning a piece of cloth or a sacred text but rather in the motivation, display, and ideologies you represent.
Would you guys feel better if I changed it to shit on instead of burn?
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
6:39 pm
December 3, 2012
Put whatever you want in your banner and don’t worry about what makes us feel better. We are mostly straight white american males on flh anyways, so who gives a fuck what we think?
What a crock of shit though. For real. Fighting hate with more hate. Saying you are for equality but spewing the same vitriol you claim to be against.
There's a gateway in our minds
That leads somewhere out there, far beyond this plane
Where reptile aliens made of light
Cut you open and pull out all your pain
Sturgill Simpson- Turtles All The Way Down
6:48 pm
May 4, 2014
I’d never ask u to change a thing, Noah. I might watch a livestream of u burning a Quran in countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia, because u might learn in real time what fascism actually is. Or maybe a reality show of u as an “undocumented immigrant” in Mexico, or even better, a slave in Mauritania. Heads up, Islamic theocracies may or may not contain executed homosexuals hanging from construction equipment. Glad Trump’s cabinet nominees are alphas who see beyond First World problems.
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11:46 pm
September 18, 2012
In defense of flag burning A) I’d like to point out that that law that Psyral pointed out no longer exists. Kind of easy to find out. It was revoked when they realized that not only is it unconstitutional but they could not enforce it.
And B) I don’t think he is burning it because he thinks we are a fascist country. I think he does it because he thinks we are becoming a fascist company and burning that flag is his way of saying he will not bow before the fascist idea that these symbols are meant to be worshiped and praised like idols or gods. That blind allegiance to flags and farmers and soldiers and all this shit is much more fascist than anything to come from socialism. Also, fuck the google definition of fascism. That specific definition that Google gave is literally a left winged biased bullshit lie meant to slander the right and is the reason I no longer trust Google’s definitions and instead go for legit dictionary definitions now.
Where he loses me is where he says burning a Mexican flag is a hate crime. No, it is literally no different than burning the American flag despite the intent. Our reasons for burning the American flag is no less hateful than any reasons to burn the Mexican flag. I hate what our country has and is becoming as much, or almost as much, as a racist would hate a Mexican. Neither should be a crime. For one, you think burning that flag intimidates brown people but fail to realize how burning the American flag intimidates American’s. An American can think it’s a hate crime and that you want to destroy the country because of it despite the intent. So for that reason burning a Mexican flag is no more a crime than burning the American one.
For the sake of both sides, I need to clarify that it is freedom of speech to burn any flag. What people all need to realize is that freedom of speech is not only one of the greatest gifts we have, but it’s also the hardest thing to accept. Because where it gives you the freedom to speak your mind and take your side, it also gives freedom to the people that oppose you. It means people can say things that will disgust you and burn you to the core and you can’t stop that. All you can do is use your freedom of speech to oppose that. So if you really stand for the freedoms that allow you to burn the flag, you also have to stand for the freedoms that allow the KKK to spread their hate and elect Donald Trump.
5:26 am
Moderators
February 15, 2014
A Mexican flag is a symbol of the country of Mexico. Mexican is not equal to Hispanic. It’s not about race. Of course Mexicans have less political power in America because this is America. In Mexico I would have less political power there because I am American. Who is to say I don’t feel intimidated, scared, or harassed if someone is burning an American flag? If you can burn one, you should be able to burn them all.
What about the burning “alt-fascists”? Can we burn alt-left, or even just moderate liberals? What is an “alt-fascist” anyway?
And the law on flag burning is still listed but every time it is brought to court, it is struck down due to 1st amendment concerns. For all practical purposes, it is a dead law. Again, I am not against flag burning, I just want consistency on flag burning.
As for 1st amendment stuff. I strongly agree with @lucem-ferre .
[edit]
@noah-fence , Don’t change your signature. It is fine as it is. Your signatures always bring discussion to the forum. The dialog they create helps point out things on which the “sides” disagree or see issues. Through discussion, ideas can evolve.
[/edit]
Penn and Teller say interesting things about burning the flag. They do not oppose it either. The burning of the flag is a statement of the freedoms within our country.
7:57 pm
July 28, 2016
I actually said that it isn’t a hate crime, just that it can be used in a hate crime. Which is true for most things. Public urination isn’t a hate crime, but it can be used in a hate crime. Graffiti isn’t inherently a hate crime, but it can be used in a hate crime. Burning a mexican flag or a quran only become a hate crime when it’s used to intimidate and harass people with less access to political power.
I’m curious, slumerican, do you think icp “fight hate with hate” when they rap about killing racists?
Whoop Whoop Noah Fence :
PsyralIf you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
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January 28, 2016
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