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3:54 pm
July 28, 2016
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Psyral and I were talking about a video he showed me where a woman apologizes to another woman for having questioned her status as a woman. Which sounds weird, right? The thing is, both of the women are trans, they just happen to disagree about what that means, and how trans is defined.
Which got me thinking. As an art major, I -often- hear that something isn’t art. Usually because it’s digital, or because the viewer doesn’t connect with it, or what ever. There’s even a video where a conservative art historian declares that anything made after 1860 isn’t really art because it’s modernist and therefore inferior to “real” art. Meanwhile, my favorite artist took a urinal, flipped it over and called it sculpture. He didn’t make the urinal. He simply wrote a fake name and positioned it in a gallery. Is it really art? (yes, in fact it’s probably one of the single most important works of art ever)
So, the way my mind works, I’m thinking about narrow, rigid definitions of what is or isn’t a thing vs malleable and elastic definitions of what is a thing. Is it better or worse to have rigidity or flexibility?
This is a thing that I experience a lot. Conservatives typically don’t view my religion as a “real” religion, because we’re not their definition of a religion. Many people, from Bill Maher to Pat Robertson, believe that all of Islam is a singular thing, a violent terrorist group, despite the fact that terrorists are more likely to kill other muslims than they are to kill non muslims. You’ve also got the whole bathroom debate. Gender is a social construct that we created before we even came close to understanding biology, sexual reproduction, and cell division. Yet we hold so fast to this unwavering idea that gender is prescriptive and binary.
This sort of stuckness is found in every punk and metal circle, every English MFA program, shit, almost every single human social construct we can think of.
Things get really interesting too if you look at things like racism, rape, and even citizenry.
Racism is to many people the neo nazi’s and the KKK murdering black people and burning a cross in their lawn. It’s old, archaic, and it’s time to move on. It’s a very specific thing. To others, it’s an ever changing system that enables the dominant social class (white people*) to exploit and endanger the subjugated class (non white people*), where * means people who are read as white by others and who participate in the racialization of whiteness, where white means “of european ancestry”.
Rape is, to many, a man in an alleyway with a knife forcing a crying and screaming girl to do his bidding. Where to others rape is any sexual act without expressed enthusiastic consent. Rape can look like consensual sex and can be between two people who know each other well, and in fact occurs most often between spousal and familial relationships.
Citizenry is my favorite. What to you is an American? The phrase “all american” is typically applied to white* people. I remember once watching a news report about a tennis match between an attractive white woman from Russia and one of the williams sisters, I forget which. And the anchor referred to the blonde foreigner as “all american girl next door”.
If we take citizenry apart, is it a person who lives in a country or a person who has papers to a country? An author I like has lived in the US for over 20 years. His children were born and grew up in the US and are now mostly (except his newest) grown. His wife is american. His ex wife is american. He’s british. Why? Because that’s where he pays taxes? Because that’s what his passport says? Because that’s what he identifies as?
If it’s a person who lives in a certain space long enough. I have a friend who was born in mexico, came to the US as an infant, and has grown up American. She has no papers. She has no identity specific affiliation with mexico. If she went to mexico, they would call her american. Others would reject her outright from the social class of “american”. What’s even better is mexico is a large North American country and yet we would reject calling them american outright.
And what about foreign born people who fight in our military as a way of hoping to get documented citizenry. Are they American enough?
Even taking it out of any possibly political affiliation, how do we define life? Would we recognize sentient life on other planets if it doesn’t resemble our own?
Taking it back into the political world, we once thought some humans were a different sub species of human because they dressed different and looked different.
Blah blah blah sorry I’m just really enjoying this.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
4:33 pm
March 31, 2012
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Noah Fence said
Meanwhile, my favorite artist took a urinal, flipped it over and called it sculpture. He didn’t make the urinal. He simply wrote a fake name and positioned it in a gallery. Is it really art? (yes, in fact it’s probably one of the single most important works of art ever)
fuck you..
i stopped reading there.. explain why you feel that way and i might continue reading..
5:03 pm
July 28, 2016
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it changed the way the art world thinks about art. The short answer is that it challenged the idea of authorship. He did literally the exact same thing as any painter or sculptor, he just did it in a very different way. Painters don’t make their paint. They don’t always make their own canvas. They just moved these things around. They presented ideas through representation. Sculptors used clay, marble, or bronze that they didn’t make and they repurposed it. He was framing art as less about the visual product and more about the conceptual framing, in order to ask questions about the art world.
He was, in essence, saying that the art world was being too rigid in their understanding of art. He submitted this piece to a group show which was supposed to show -everything- that was submitted but it was rejected.
Which leads to critiques on culture through art in ways that we couldn’t have had before.
^^ she gives a good discussion on his work.
Now, obviously, “the most important” was a bit hyperbolic. However it’s worth noting that as an art major at a major university, there is no artist I’ve had to hear more about than Marcel Duchamp. Every class on theory, every class on art history, every class on production has started with “So, in 1917…”
He did a similar thing with a piece called In Advance of A Broken Arm, where he placed a snow shovel in a gallery setting as art, but it doesn’t have the same importance because it wasn’t rejected by the art world.
It should be noted that he’s a very successful and famous artist outside of these kinds of works.
This cubist painting, Nude Descending A Stair was created while cubism was a big deal.
This was a surreal piece. I forget the name of it. I think it’s “the glass” but I might be wrong. While he was sending this piece to be shown the glass broke. Rather than taking the piece down and recreating it, he incorporated the broken glass into the work.
Saying that chance is essential to art. Which helped him develop the idea of the ready made works he created later (the fountain, etc).
I mean, I could go on for days and days and days about Ducamp and his work. he’s one of my favorites and like I’ve said, I’ve had so many lectures about him and his work.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
5:15 pm
July 28, 2016
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A more succinct answer, is that before duchamp, you went to look at art and you either liked it or you didn’t. It was visual.
After duchamp you went and experienced art. Liking it or not had nothing to do with it. You had a relationship to the work and explored the ideas that it prompted.
Duchamp is acid, other art is optical illusions.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
5:45 pm
May 4, 2014
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Noah Fence said
…Taking it back into the political world, we once thought some humans were a different sub species of human because they dressed different and looked different…
Yeah, just last month your mind was elastic enough to post this:”Conservatives think it’s okay to call me a faggot and a wet back, so I’m just returning the favor. You guys wanted to be done with “political correctness” so you are subhuman shit…”
I miss my Cuban-born roommate Martha who used to make wetback jokes about herself (and the glorious drag queens of Orlando who ain’t buying the postmodern slop you’re selling.)
Noah Fence said
…He was, in essence, saying that the art world was being too rigid in their understanding of art…
My ex went thru a Dada period (oddly, my eyes & ears bled the whole time.) It happened to coincide with his balls-out, drug-fueled nihilism subsidized by his rich parents. I heard stories about Dada artists conducting archery practice next to a group of children, and telling one of their screaming mothers that if they killed one of the kids they’d happily help her make another. Not a fan. I had my digital music in a formal Floridian gallery display in the early 2000s (I called the exhibit an altar to insanity), & am all about free expression and giving any art form a chance. Doesn’t mean anyone has to like it. Viva the free market of ideas, & Francis Bacon’s art:
 |  |  |
6:22 pm
July 28, 2016
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krunkazphuk said
Noah Fence said
…Taking it back into the political world, we once thought some humans were a different sub species of human because they dressed different and looked different…
Yeah, just last month your mind was elastic enough to post this:”Conservatives think it’s okay to call me a faggot and a wet back, so I’m just returning the favor. You guys wanted to be done with “political correctness” so you are subhuman shit…”
I miss my Cuban-born roommate Martha who used to make wetback jokes about herself (and the glorious drag queens of Orlando who ain’t buying the postmodern slop you’re selling.)
Just trying to play by your rules, miss. Down with political correctness, call people all sorts of insults because they don’t matter and are just words, right you ogreish buffoon?
Noah Fence said
…He was, in essence, saying that the art world was being too rigid in their understanding of art…
My ex went thru a Dada period (oddly, my eyes & ears bled the whole time.) It happened to coincide with his balls-out, drug-fueled nihilism subsidized by his rich parents. I heard stories about Dada artists conducting archery practice next to a group of children, and telling one of their screaming mothers that if they killed one of the kids they’d happily help her make another. Not a fan. I had my digital music in a formal Floridian gallery display in the early 2000s (I called the exhibit an altar to insanity), & am all about free expression and giving any art form a chance. Doesn’t mean anyone has to like it. Viva the free market of ideas, & Francis Bacon’s art:
I don’t really get your point. I literally said duchamp isn’t about whether you like it or not. Nobody cares what you like. Nobody cares what I like. Liking something is an archaic, historical approach to art you slav lookin granny panties poop stain.
ETA sorry was originally too politically correct. Fixed it for you.
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
11:18 pm
March 30, 2013
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The infamous debate. I couldn’t escape it when I worked at the college for 4 years. Mapplethorpe, “Pisschrist”, that lady that had naked black and whites of her kids.
I just hope you have seen or will watch thus movie, Noah. The entire thing. It basically becomes an abstract vs technical debate but it has a lot of poignancy in other areas.
11:40 pm
September 18, 2012
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That toilet art (lol) reminds me of the time I had to do this school report and show it in front of the class about social problems and how to overcome them. I didn’t do any fucking thing so when it was my turn I drew a swastika on the board and made some shit up about racism. I got an A too. I should do arts too. Wait, do I need to go to college and become a pretentious douche to make it big? I’m down with getting a man bun as long as I can rock it like Kendrick Lamar.
12:01 am
February 13, 2015
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I see art in evil shit sometimes. Pimpin. Murder. Mob shit. Authority. War. Witchcraft. The darkside. Anger. Pimpin
Whoop Whoop bayAreaShaman :
Noah FenceYOU KNOW THEY AINT NO SUCH THING AS LEFTOVER CRACK!!!- Leftover Crack
12:12 am
September 18, 2012
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bayAreaShaman said
I see art in evil shit sometimes. Pimpin. Murder. Mob shit. Authority. War. Witchcraft. The darkside. Anger. Pimpin
I was almost a pimp once. I would have been a good pimp too. I would have shaved the bitch and sprayed her down with the hose a few times before making her shower then make her shower everyday and brush her teeth and teach her not to tell 14 year old boys that she was raped by her uncle at that age. This is all true too, that’s the sad part.
1:30 am
February 13, 2015
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King Lucem Ferre said
I was almost a pimp once. I would have been a good pimp too. I would have shaved the bitch and sprayed her down with the hose a few times before making her shower then make her shower everyday and brush her teeth and teach her not to tell 14 year old boys that she was raped by her uncle at that age. This is all true too, that’s the sad part.
Sheesh. That’s horrible..
Theres some stupid song fueled moments when for like minute I think the same, but then I drive down International Blvd. In Oakland and then I realize its like the worst life there is.
YOU KNOW THEY AINT NO SUCH THING AS LEFTOVER CRACK!!!- Leftover Crack
5:18 am
September 18, 2012
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bayAreaShaman said
Sheesh. That’s horrible..
Theres some stupid song fueled moments when for like minute I think the same, but then I drive down International Blvd. In Oakland and then I realize its like the worst life there is.
She was kind of a blatant and proud slut and the idea was that why is she fucking these dudes for free when she could make money doing it and I guess she was down but right after saying that she got gang banged by a bunch of dudes for free. I don’t think you can turn a girl like that into a prostitute. She one time told me that I could call her the Magna town whore. I think she may have worse emotional problems than I do.
11:05 am
February 13, 2015
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King Lucem Ferre said
She was kind of a blatant and proud slut and the idea was that why is she fucking these dudes for free when she could make money doing it and I guess she was down but right after saying that she got gang banged by a bunch of dudes for free. I don’t think you can turn a girl like that into a prostitute. She one time told me that I could call her the Magna town whore. I think she may have worse emotional problems than I do.
Ive been in that situation a few times. Never followed through. Not cuz I thought i was better. I just couldn’t do that to a girl. Like as soon as she hands me over the money and i buy her a new stripper outfit that comes in one of those holloween costume packets but smaller and some chicken wings is when theres no turning back. Even if she dont know it when she’s with that dude its like the darkest place in the world. Being a ho reminds me of being in Vietnam. I don’t understand how u can continue to glorify it as a pimp. I guess thats part of the art. Pimps got cold hearts but u really gotta make that girl fall in love with u. No thanks man. Ill rather sell dope.
YOU KNOW THEY AINT NO SUCH THING AS LEFTOVER CRACK!!!- Leftover Crack
1:55 pm
September 18, 2012
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bayAreaShaman said
King Lucem Ferre said
She was kind of a blatant and proud slut and the idea was that why is she fucking these dudes for free when she could make money doing it and I guess she was down but right after saying that she got gang banged by a bunch of dudes for free. I don’t think you can turn a girl like that into a prostitute. She one time told me that I could call her the Magna town whore. I think she may have worse emotional problems than I do.
Ive been in that situation a few times. Never followed through. Not cuz I thought i was better. I just couldn’t do that to a girl. Like as soon as she hands me over the money and i buy her a new stripper outfit that comes in one of those holloween costume packets but smaller and some chicken wings is when theres no turning back. Even if she dont know it when she’s with that dude its like the darkest place in the world. Being a ho reminds me of being in Vietnam. I don’t understand how u can continue to glorify it as a pimp. I guess thats part of the art. Pimps got cold hearts but u really gotta make that girl fall in love with u. No thanks man. Ill rather sell dope.
Actually, from what I understand, they will party with these girls and start giving them drugs and at the end of the night they will tell them that the drugs weren’t free and that they need to pay them back and if they don’t have the money they make them fuck for the money. I mean, that’s just one method.
2:23 pm
February 13, 2015
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King Lucem Ferre said
Actually, from what I understand, they will party with these girls and start giving them drugs and at the end of the night they will tell them that the drugs weren’t free and that they need to pay them back and if they don’t have the money they make them fuck for the money. I mean, that’s just one method.
Thats how u get sucked. In the most douche of ways.
Lucem i wanna say hella shit but im just grossed out by myself at the moment for having so much to say. I guess u dont have to be proud of everything u know. I used to do alot of drugs and live on the street. That pavement garbage and yellow streets lamps are hell. Hell. And i was in a baby ghetto called Hayward. Oakland is like Vietnam. I cant all that shit just stikes a bone with me. Maybe cuz i was a teenager having to deal with all this shit and just having a “realistic” perspective on this. By realistic i mean i saw it i was next to it i met them i grew up with them i saw them die disappear shrivel up and get dead eyes. I just see a grown up kid and it breaks my heart.
But what u do is u keep giving her drugs instead of money. They will come back. Why fuck her when u can pimp her lucem?
YOU KNOW THEY AINT NO SUCH THING AS LEFTOVER CRACK!!!- Leftover Crack
10:50 pm
September 18, 2012
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bayAreaShaman said
King Lucem Ferre said
Actually, from what I understand, they will party with these girls and start giving them drugs and at the end of the night they will tell them that the drugs weren’t free and that they need to pay them back and if they don’t have the money they make them fuck for the money. I mean, that’s just one method.
Thats how u get sucked. In the most douche of ways.
Lucem i wanna say hella shit but im just grossed out by myself at the moment for having so much to say. I guess u dont have to be proud of everything u know. I used to do alot of drugs and live on the street. That pavement garbage and yellow streets lamps are hell. Hell. And i was in a baby ghetto called Hayward. Oakland is like Vietnam. I cant all that shit just stikes a bone with me. Maybe cuz i was a teenager having to deal with all this shit and just having a “realistic” perspective on this. By realistic i mean i saw it i was next to it i met them i grew up with them i saw them die disappear shrivel up and get dead eyes. I just see a grown up kid and it breaks my heart.
But what u do is u keep giving her drugs instead of money. They will come back. Why fuck her when u can pimp her lucem?
That’s not what I was going to do, I was going to have her make money off of doing what she likes to do and I get a cut to make sure people don’t fuck with her, just saying that it’s usually much more fucked up. I never did and would never fuck her personally.
11:51 pm
July 28, 2016
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Old Mr Dangerous said
The infamous debate. I couldn’t escape it when I worked at the college for 4 years. Mapplethorpe, “Pisschrist”, that lady that had naked black and whites of her kids.I just hope you have seen or will watch thus movie, Noah. The entire thing. It basically becomes an abstract vs technical debate but it has a lot of poignancy in other areas.
I haven’t seen it but i promise most kids can’t make anything as labor intensive and focused as a pollock. I really have no interest in listening to the debate. The debate isn’t that interesting to me because it misses the point: art isnt sacred or special or important. Everything is art. Whether something is pretty or not is irrelevant.
Plus, most people don’t realize how big abstract work of some status usually is:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWmFCf5gi5o/
bayAreaShaman said
I see art in evil shit sometimes. Pimpin. Murder. Mob shit. Authority. War. Witchcraft. The darkside. Anger. Pimpin
For sure. I think a lot of really painful stuff is beautiful in a way. It’s how we check in with ourselves and know that we are still human. Not by committing these acts but by witnessing them and talking about them through art.
I saw this stunning kara walker today:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWmDK6HgHdK/
And this:
If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter
7:41 pm
March 30, 2013
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It’s a near certainty from the film that the girl didn’t paint the stuff. Her dad is a weird fucker and the signals all point to fraud. However, it’s an interesting movie.
My own daughters blow my mind with their talents. Also with memory. The one that just turned 5 remembers things that we completely forgot.
Other than social media friends, I don’t really share their artwork. It’s tremendously good for their age, literally 3 or 4 years more advanced than I was at that age. And I was the most talented artist in my school. But all that being said, it’s nothing like the five year old kid’s “paintings” in that movie. The dad faked it, plain and simple.
Whoop Whoop Old Mr Dangerous :
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