Old Mr Dangerous said
Jokerr Jokerr Jokerr. .. lol...

I absolutely love his Sidekick and Dead Horse tracks. Diss and apology tracks yo Strange Music and others. Like Hopsin. The clarity and sound is so nice, and they are just enjoyably listenable songs.

He definitely strikes me as an autistic or maybe, an idiot savant. Respectfully.  

I can say a lot about that con artist, but will give him a nod on production value. He can engineer and master a track pretty damn good. He also took an ass beating in AZ for some of those disses even better!

Pigg said

I've talked to him via a Facebook "call" and on messenger and I haven't gotten that vibe at all 

I'm glad he's stopped dissing people though.  

Diss raps gain views much easier than original music. So I can't blame him there. But I'm glad it's over, too.

Old Mr Dangerous said
Jokerr Jokerr Jokerr. .. lol...

I absolutely love his Sidekick and Dead Horse tracks. Diss and apology tracks yo Strange Music and others. Like Hopsin. The clarity and sound is so nice, and they are just enjoyably listenable songs.

He definitely strikes me as an autistic or maybe, an idiot savant. Respectfully.  

I've talked to him via a Facebook "call" and on messenger and I haven't gotten that vibe at all 

I'm glad he's stopped dissing people though.

I absolutely love his Sidekick and Dead Horse tracks. Diss and apology tracks yo Strange Music and others. Like Hopsin. The clarity and sound is so nice, and they are just enjoyably listenable songs.

He definitely strikes me as an autistic or maybe, an idiot savant. Respectfully.

And then...shit just kinda petered out. He didnt get the buzz he wanted I guess, started dissing dudes left and right...I mean, he has an entire ALBUM of diss tracks. If you've got beef with enough people to make a God damn album out of it? You need to consider a change in lifestyle, homie.

I got put on to him through his Justise diss, and had no clue who that guy was. I got behind his album, even though it was way high concept, with the fantasy-flavored wraparound narration. I wasn't sure Juggalos at large would "get" it. I dug it, but then again I'm a huge dork.

His Funk Volume disses are some of my favorite of the bunch. And on point too, considering the way that whole thing inevitably played out. Then he's dissing Juggalo rappers, then ICP, and I wasn't even mad. I got a kick out of it. Thing is, he responded to the inevitable backlash by doubling down on social media with legitimate vitriol. Juggalo Memes spanked him hard over that, and a good time was had by all. Or by me anyway.

Maestro drops and that's a yukfest. Other than a passing reference on, Something Else, I think, and a mention on an interview, Tech barely acknowledged it, which is how I expected that to play out. 

He tried flexing hard on Grewsum and Grew chewed him up and spit him out in the Daily 16 with a fraction of the effort Jokerr put into his diss. This is isn't just my opinion, this was consensus among my crew who had a neither here-nor-there vested interest in either rapper. 

Then Dead Horse drops and it was just...lame. Why come so hard just to neuter your own shit? Same with the Faygoluvers interview. "Oh you know, I been down since blahblah Juggalos and I have some good natured ribbing durdurderdurr" backpedaling bullshit. I'd have rather him stuck to his guns, that wins Juggalos respect way more than trying to pander to an audience when it dawns on you that you've shit in all four corners of the room you're trying to move in to. And don't get me wrong, I like Jokerr, and there's enough rappers out there that still fuck with him for me to understand he ain't going anywhere. Its just, the aftermath of all that Path of Destruction noise ended up being weak and anticlimactic in the end.

TheFvckinKreeper said
Hell yeah. Great contribution. I'm gonna avoid my tired opinions about AMB/Bonez, and just say you make some very good points.

Interesting comparison to The Jokerr. I never really thought of that, but the shoe definitely fits. Dudes another anamoly. I watched his career trajectory, and he's always going to have a place in the underground- but he could have been much, much bigger, but he overextended his reach by making too *much* noise with his diss tracks, to the point where they eclipsed the album he was using them to promote. I still consider him one of the rare innovators and brilliant satirists in this scene, but you can tell he was feeling the sting from the way he backpedaled during the Faygoluvers interview from a few years ago.  

I think my biggest problem with Jokerr is that he disses people just to get buzz, and then backtracks after it blows up in his face and the fans start dissing him back. He's a great musician but he's too much of a hater. Not to mention some of his disses are hypocritical...I forget who it was, but he dissed one dude for being too old, and another for being young, as if he's the perfect age-range for rappers.

Interesting comparison to The Jokerr. I never really thought of that, but the shoe definitely fits. Dudes another anamoly. I watched his career trajectory, and he's always going to have a place in the underground- but he could have been much, much bigger, but he overextended his reach by making too *much* noise with his diss tracks, to the point where they eclipsed the album he was using them to promote. I still consider him one of the rare innovators and brilliant satirists in this scene, but you can tell he was feeling the sting from the way he backpedaled during the Faygoluvers interview from a few years ago.

A good example of a successful use of the chameleon approach would be Action Bronson blatantly copying Ghostface's style.  It's also a weird style that's hard to make it sound right, but he pulled it off.  To the point where it actually pissed Ghostface off and Bronson had to just come right out and say it.

Jokerr also did a really good Tech impression as a joke in "The Maestro" claiming that he's a better rapper than Tech because he can damn near perfectly imitate Tech's writing and all of his forms of delivery in a single verse, and his point was that he can do everything Tech does in addition to all of the other things he can do.  And nobody was buying into that, so the same rules should apply to Mr. Garcia here.

I think Young Wicked would be a good studio rapper and a good engineer, but MNE really isn't using him like that.  Slaughter was cool because that was his project from start to finish.  Minimal features, and he wrote, recorded, produced, and engineered the whole thing himself, and they were impressed with his production enough to let him do significant portions of 2 joker card albums for better or for worse.  Then on MNE he's not producing for anybody, Se7en, ROC, and Mono are making the beats, but his album still turned out badass.

He was just some kid from Denver who won a murky contest, and over the course of a decade went down a path that would make a good book series if Lemony Snicket happened to be a juggalo.

Moving forward, I'd like for AMB to make a good comeback.  Preferably rapping the choruses instead of doing the overly harmonized Jokerr hooks for every song, and a 50/50 split on the vocal presence just to see what they can do.  He's clearly their more talented half and it will shine even if he lets Bonez do half of the vocals.  See LARS for proof of concept on that theory.

Well that ended up long with questionable coherence.  Hopefully some aspect of that makes at least a little sense or at least gives you something to read :D

"Do you think during the shoot Rittz was ever just like ['Yo, really dude?' Sideways stink face]? I mean he's standing next to a dude who's literally just copying his style."

My response was that if it was such an issue the video never would have happened, but that's beside the point. I'm glad it was mentioned, and that it wasn't me who brought this up, because it opened up the discussion I wanted to have with someone for a minute. That is, Otis' chameleon-like approach to music. The crux of it is, he's much less someone who has developed his own style, as he is someone who is so adept at copying established musicians that he managed to make a career of it. This isn't a Young Wicked hate thread, this is simply me  observing the anamoly, and it's a trend that runs through his entire career.

Take the song 'Deserve', for example. Now its nothing new for paint-by-number-horrorcore acts to copy ICP, and sometimes you can even catch established acts influenced by them slip into an unconscious clown flow once in a while, but the shear exactedness of the song structure is what makes this song remarkable. The linear narrative "flow" (in distinct, inarguable Joe Bruce storyteller style), distorted spooky time keeping vocals, and raprock "breakdown" make this a dollar store version of Echoside. Seriously. Go listen to it. This is the Bootleg ICP T-Shirt of Paint By Numbers Horrorcore.

Young Wicked's mixtape is arguably what saved AMB from losing label support entirely, and on it he's never shy about wearing his influences clearly on his sleeve, shouting out MGK and Mac Lethal among others on that as well as subsequent releases. The switch to tighter raps/stream of consciousness/focus on wordplay and punchlines from then out reflects this. It seems that if Otis shouts you out on a track, he's going to attempt to do his version of your shit at some point in time.

It's really no surprise. Before the split, J would praise the genetically superior Garcia Brother for his ability to pick up and play instruments, and dissect music with just his ear. I imagine that's how he taught himself to produce. And make no mistake, as much of a hip-hop faux pas as it is to steal flow, the ability to do it competently is still a talent.

It's just not typically one that would lead to being a national act. People like that usually become studio people. This lead to a split in the discussion, wherein I speculated that in some alternate world Otis was scouted by a major, he would inevitably just *be* a studio musician. The Juggalo World is a rare climate where someone like that could become a well-known stage act independently, and survive. My homie disagreed. I wanna know what you guys think.